Episode 18-Thomas Clements and Nathan Leon

Amanda: Hey there, all you true crime fans. I'm Amanda. Kori: And I'm Kori A: And this is Colorado crime. If you're new here, we're just two best friends who want to be your new best friend. While we chat about all things true crime, we cover cases from coast to coast, with a special emphasis on cases that happen right here in colorful, crime filled Colorado. I had to breathe. Stop by for the stories. Stay for the fun if you're returning. Thanks for stopping by, friend. Kori: Okay, are you ready for a joke? Amanda: Yes. Kori: Okay. This joke was sent in to us by Brenda Thompson. Amanda: Thank you, Brendan. Kori: That was very nice of you. I know several of you sent a bunch of jokes, so I'm doing my best. They'll be on the podcast and not on Facebook, so look for them here. Okay. What did one plate say to the other? Amanda: Oh, gosh. What? Kori: Tonight dinner is on me. That's a good one. Send your terrible jokes to me. I love them. Amanda: Yes, please. We love them. So before we jump into our true crime updates, we have to talk about our new series. So if you missed our announcement yesterday, we are starting a new series that will air every Tuesday at 02:00 P.m. Mountain standard time, called serial killer Tuesday. Our first episode will be released on march 7 on Skt. We will do a month long deep dive into a different serial killer's life. So make sure you tune in every Tuesday at 02:00 P.m. Mountain standard time to find out what makes some of the most prolific serial killers tick. All right, friends, let's go ahead and get into some crime updates. So I was researching these, and this one was like, two bananas to pass up. I read that. Kori: It's crazy. Amanda: It's crazy, right? Kori: It is. Amanda: So this one is coming to us from the UK. Shay Groves, 27, slit her BDSM partner. His name was Frankie Fitzgerald. She slit his throat, and then after that, she proceeded to stab him 22 times. So buckle up, though, because this is literally only the beginning. So after she stabbed him, she then video called her friend, and while she was giggling, she showed her she showed the friend Frankie's lifeless body and said, quote, I've done him, end quote. So the friend assumed that she was just being pranked, and she didn't really take the call seriously until Shy got, like, up close and personal with the damage that she caused, and she showed the keeping wounds to whoever she was on the phone with. Kori: Can you imagine getting a call from your friend, like a FaceTime call? And you're like, hey, girl, what's up? And she's like, hey, girl, nothing much to my boyfriend. Sorry, what? Amanda: Right. Kori: And she's like, no, here, look, here he is. Amanda: Yeah, take care of him, fake. Kori: Oh, that's just his guts. It's fine. Amanda: It's just a surface wound. Kori: He'll be okay. Amanda: We've been doing it. Kori: Call you later. We'll get drinks. Amanda: It's not funny, but it's funny. Luna says hi, everybody. She's leaving now. Yeah. So she called this friend, and it was actually the friend who reported what was going on. And apparently Shea claimed that she was mad at Frankie because she found out that he was messaging a 13 year old. But during the investigation, it was revealed that the girl he was communicating with was actually 17 and he had already blocked her after he discovered her age. But the plot thickens when I tell you guys the next part done. So Shay Groves had an unhealthy obsession with serial killers and even had framed pictures of them on her wall. And I'm not talking, like, little pictures. I'm talking, like, posters. Yes. Like Andy Warhols on her walls. Kori: Nice. Amanda: So when her friends were testifying, they said that Shea had actually joked that Fitzgerald was going to end up on her wall and she, quote, left space for him. So she was actually sentenced last week to life in prison with a minimum term of 23 years. And because it's Britain, their sentencing is a little bit different. But yeah. Isn't that crazy? Kori: Yeah. Speaking of, like, serial killers, there's a mod on The Sims, because Amanda and I both play The Sims and shout out to all you Sims players that are listening right now. But there's a mod on The Sims that you can turn yourself into a serial killer or summon a serial killer, and it's the same thing. You can get posters of them, too. Amanda: Oh, my gosh. Kori: Yeah. It's a very dark and terrifying mod, but also cool at the same time. Maybe I have an out and healthy obsession with serial killers. Amanda: All right, well, if you start hacking Candice up, we're going to have some problems. Kori: Well, I'm not the guy who's going to take a picture and send it to me, because if somebody did that to me, I'd be screenshot in that whole conversation, be like, here. Oh, my God, can you send me another picture of that? Amanda: Right. It goes back to we will tell don't tell us stuff. Terrible. So I'm sure you guys are aware, but next on our list is R. Kelly. Kori: R. Kelly. Amanda: If you guys aren't familiar, I'm sure you all are, but if you're not he was arrested and tried in 2008 for child ***********, but the jury failed to convict him. Then in 2019, a documentary titled Surviving R. Kelly was released, and all of those accusations were reexamined. So he was found guilty of trafficking and racketeering in 2022, and then he was sentenced to 20 years in prison for owning and producing child *********** and enticing a minor. But that sentence is actually going to be served concurrently or alongside his other sentence. So it really only added a year, and he will be 80 when he's released. Kori: Did you watch that surviving R. Kelly documentary? Amanda: I watched bits and pieces of it. Kori: So in this documentary, it's like horrifying all the things. There's three seasons of it, and the final season was released, like the end of last year sometime. And it's only four episodes, but it shows, like the court like the court transcripts and stuff like that. Man. R. Kelly is some that whole thing is some I don't even have words for that. So when I was researching one sick M effor. Amanda: He is. He really is. But I don't know. He was married to Alia. Kori: Yeah, he was. She was only like 15 or 16 when they got married. Something like that. Amanda: That is crazy to me. Kori: And speaking of R. Kelly, I thought that was funny that we were talking about this because I'm re watching South Park, HBO Max. And I mean, why not? I'm on season twelve. It's pretty amazing. But season ten, R. Kelly was on there and he was singing I don't even remember what they were. I think they were singing like, at the Walmart or something like that. Oh, my God. I never laughed so hard when I came and read this and saw that we were doing a little update on R. Kelly. I told Gandhis. I'm like, it's funny because I just watched him on South Park. Amanda: Oh, my God. That's funny. I think I've seen like a handful of South Park episodes. Kori: I love South Park. Amanda: That's funny. Kori: To get into it, you really need to start on season one. Amanda: Oh, I'm sure. How many seasons are there? Kori: Like 27. Amanda: Jesus, that's crazy. Kori: Yeah, it's so relatable. Everything is relatable unrelatable right now. Amanda: I started watching Yellowstone. Kori: Oh, nice. Amanda: I finally made it to season two. This has been like it's been on. Kori: For a long time. Amanda: I know. I've been trying to watch it for like a year. But I'm in season two now, so making progress. Kori: Shout out to you and your TV watching. Are you going to get Netflix? Amanda: Probably. Christopher well, I told Chris, I said, so I'm going to have to break down, and I'm going to have to ask Cory for her password. He's like, don't you dare. I said, I have to. And he's like, no, you can't. You can't do it. He's like, what do you even need it for? I'm like, Well, I have this author that I just like I love her. And she writes about North Carolina. Oh, yeah, I have this weird obsession with North Carolina. I've never been there, but I love it. And so all of her books are very teenaged, but she writes about North Carolina and they're easy, simple reads. And one of her books is becoming a movie and it's coming out on Netflix. Or it came out oh, I think it came out in 2022. But if you guys are interested in easy reads, sarah Descent is amazing. She's my favorite. Kori: Nice. Amanda: I know. I'm also reading Ashley Flower's new book, all Good People Here. And then I have another one that I'm reading also nice. I know. What else you got for us? Kori: Well, I'm sure you've all been hearing about Madeline McCain. This one is kind of like a Lifetime movie come to life. Amanda: It is. Kori: So, next on Lifetime, madeline had gone missing from her family's hotel room in Portugal on a little family vacation they were having. This was May 3 of 2007. The children had it was her and her two twin siblings. They were two, she was three. All the children had been left sleeping at 830 on the ground floor apartment while their parents were dining with friends at a restaurant about 180ft away. Her parents came back and kept checking on the kids, like, periodically, until Kate, her mother, discovered that Madeleine was missing about 10:00 p.m. That night. They called the police and the police suspected that the parents had covered up Madeline's accidental death and her body has never been found. So queue the Lifetime movie part, julia, she came forward earlier this year because she's convinced she's Madeline. She's claiming that her parents have been vague about her childhood, that she's not seeing any pictures of herself as a baby or a small child, and that she never saw pictures of her mother pregnant with her. She's been documenting online the similarities between her and Madeleine, such as facial moles, a distinct brown smudge on her right eye. Risk. Amanda: I was going to say that. I did see that thing. That's pretty interesting to me. Kori: Right? And her family is refusing to submit to a DNA test. The McCain said they would submit to one, but also, I'm pretty sure there's like, an attorney. McCann. Sorry. It is McCann. My bad. I said it the wrong the whole time. So McCann. The McCann said they would submit to a DNA test, but no one's contacted them yet for that. And some of the authorities were like, they didn't want to put them through that if it wasn't true. But why wouldn't you want to put it through? You can't really tell. I guess they're trying to figure out if Julia is her parents child, not the Mccanns, but her parents currently. So I don't know. It's a whole disaster. So we'll see how it plays out. That would be crazy, though, if she was actually Madeline. She does look similar. Interesting story. Amanda: That is interesting. So I pulled it up and it looks like her parents are speaking out and accusing Julia of having, like, mental health issues and how she's always wanted to be popular and saying that there's no way that she is Madeline McCann. She is and always was Julia, so we will see how it plays out. Kori: Well, I understand the mental illness part of it, but if she is just Julia, then why don't they want to do a DNA test? Right? Amanda: I agree. Kori: Just to calm the speculation. Yeah. Just be like, hey, we'll do one. I would just do that for the sake of doing it. For Christ's sake. Amanda: Maybe they're like, maybe this isn't like her first time. Kori: Or maybe they're just maybe not. Amanda: I don't know. Maybe you're crazy, we're done with you. Right. But not a good way to approach it. I'm not saying that they should write off her daughter right off their daughter. Kori: I just think if they wanted to shut all this down, they would just do a DNA test and be done with it. Amanda: I agree. Kori: Whatever. That's just my opinion. Amanda: Yeah, it would clear so many things up, right? I don't know. Kori: That's just weird. Amanda: I agree. So we'll definitely keep you guys updated on that. All right, well, are you ready to jump into this week's case? Kori: I am. Amanda: Cool. So today we are going to discuss the murder of Thomas Lynn Clements. So Thomas actually worked for the state of Colorado as the chief executive of the Colorado Department of Corrections. A little backstory about Tom. He was actually born in St. Louis, Missouri, on October 2, 1954, and he married his wife, Dr. Lisa Smith, in 1984. And together they had two girls, Sarah and Rachel. Before he moved to Colorado to lead the Colorado Department of Corrections, he actually worked a similar job in Missouri. So on the website Correctionalleaders.com, tom's bio reads as follows quote tom committed his life to serve the correctional population. As a teenager, having been deeply touched by visiting his uncle in prison, he prepared himself academically for correctional challenges, earning an associate's degree in Arts and Science in Criminal Justice in 1977, a Bachelor's degree in sociology in 1979, and a Master's degree in Public Administration in 1994. He began working in Missouri Corrections in 1979, and over his 31 years there, he occupied a variety of increasingly challenging positions in probation and parole services as well as prisons. He was Director of Adult Institutions when he retired in 2011, not yet ready to end his career, he moved to Colorado to become Executive Director of the Colorado Department of Corrections, where he served for two years until his death in 2013. Kori: In 2015, an award was created to honor his memory. It is given to one Correctional Leaders Association member annually for their ability to display innovation and achievement. Tom was regarded as a progressive leader who was said to have cared about the mental health of the prisoners and worked to ensure their transition into society was smooth. The day after Tom was murdered, former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper remembered Tom as someone who worked in a cold, dark world with a remarkably open and generous heart. Unquote. Which is such a kind comment. Working with inmates is a dark world, one that can harden a person, but Tom was anything but cold. I agree with that. County jail is something a whole other ball of wax, and I can't imagine how prison was. Amanda: Federal prison has got to be way worse. Kori: Or like those privately funded prisons, I can't imagine how those are any better I mean, we had that one in Hudson for a hot second. Amanda: I don't even know how those are legal. Kori: Right. Me either. First of all, the corrections officers do not get paid enough to work at those. Even back when that one opened, nobody was making more than $15 an hour. Amanda: It's not enough. No, because it's an essential position. So they're there all the time. Kori: Right. Amanda: If it's anything like county, you're always short staffed, so then you're covering and you're working overtime. Kori: I don't know. That's a job for a few. Something has to be different with your view on stuff to work at a facility, a prison facility, accounting facility. And I was never a Corrections officer, but Amanda and I both worked at Corrections, and it's not an easy job for anything. It's not easy. Amanda: No. Kori: It doesn't make you hard. So Thomas was concerned about parolees going back to prison for technical violations and had started efforts to improve parole supervision. He also voiced concerns about solitary confinement on how it's overused and abused. He believed that mental illness is exacerbated in solitary. And Thomas was an all around good human trying to make a dark, dark place better for the people in it. I agree. I don't think solitary confinement is very good. I think it makes people with mental illness more mental illness. Amanda: Oh, I totally agree. I think even if you don't suffer from any mental illness, I think being alone is so hard. I don't think his humans were meant. Kori: To be alone, especially not in the combined space. Amanda: No. Kori: In the dark. Amanda: So on March 19, 2013, just after 08:40 P.m.. Thomas Lynn Clemens was shot and killed at his home in Monument, Colorado. Thomas was fatally shot in the chest after answering his front door, thinking it was a pizza delivery guy. His case drew a lot of attention locally and internationally, not only because he was the head of Corrections, but also because Governor Hickenlooper had signed new gun control laws just after his assassination. Kori: Crazy. Amanda: So the suspect in his murder the suspect in his murder, a 28 year old male and suspected 211 crew member. Kori: The 211 gang. Amanda: So the 211 Crew is the largest white supremacist prison gang in Colorado. They are also known as the Aryan Alliance or the Brotherhood of Aryan Alliance. The main tattoo is a shield or like a patch in a triangle shape with interlocking arms. So like hands grabbing arms, like wrists. Kori: You can't see what she's doing. We're on the radio. Amanda: Yeah, that's why I have a face for radio. But I am doing it just so you guys are all aware. Locking my arms and then on the inside is a set of hands and they're grasping lightning bolts. And then the numbers to eleven are on the bottom center. So there's differing opinions on where the gang actually got its name. Law enforcement believes they got it from the California Penal code for robbery, but some members will claim that 211 is the numeric code for Baa or the Brotherhood of Arian Alliance. Kori: I was just looking at my phone to see what that actually was. Amanda: Did I do a good job of describing it? Kori: Yeah, that and the numeric code is actually two one one is Baa, and it's not really Baa. It actually should be two two two because that's the numeric code for Baa. Amanda: Yes. Kori: So they messed it up. Amanda: Idiots. I'm wondering. I'm taking that out. I'm not going to say a bad word about gang members. I don't want to get ******* ****** up. I don't know why I'm so weird about covering this. Should we really talk about this? You were like, do we have 211 crew members who listen to our podcast? And I'm like, I don't know their lives like you do. You boo. But just know we like people of all color and all races. So maybe you don't have a home here. Kori: Maybe you don't. The Carry On the 211 Crew, or as I'm going to secretly call them, the Two Two Two Crew, was created in a Denver county jail in 1995 after Benjamin Davis was arrested for a string of robberies. Davis was sentenced to serve 30 years for his crimes, and while he was incarcerated, he was involved in a fight with a black man who broke Davis's jaw. He then made it his sole mission to protect his crew members from black and Hispanic gang members. In 2004, Davis took out an ad in the Rocky Mountain News to publicly deny any continue association with gang activity. Two years later, however, he and almost two dozen other 211 crew members were convicted of racketeering, which racketeering and Rico is freaking hard as hell to get convicted of. You are doing some serious racketeering for them to convict you of that. Shoot, you didn't have a very good attorney. You need a mob attorney. I'm serious. Anyways, he was found to have directed assaults and killings of other prisoners while in solitary confinement at several Colorado facilities. So how on earth being in solitary were you able to conduct your racketeering business? You know, he had an inside man working in the prison. Amanda: That's how it works, guys. Kori: So just so you know, you can't just have free range in solitary. You can't speak to other inmates. That's not how it is. So, you know, one of those correction officers was helping him out. So he probably has some members on the inside of that. Or he managed to convince somebody or a nurse. Don't get me started on that. He was sentenced in 2007 to serve additional prison terms totaling 108 years. He was found hanging in his cell on August 26, 2017 in Rawlings, Wyoming. His death was ruled suicide. I feel like that's suspicious, but that's just me. According to a prison informant, the day before Thomas Clemens was murdered in his home, two to eleven crew members were discussing details about how the killing would likely take place. The informant who overheard the conversation said that the Mint were, quote, talking about how there was going to be a doc official that was going to get popped. I didn't know which one because they didn't say. They were talking low and they were talking about a nine millimeter Barretta and how this official was going to get shot twice unquote. Amanda: So just remember that when we talk about an informant, usually they're getting some sort of a deal. I'm sure we've mentioned that in other episodes. But informants don't just offer up information out of the good for free. This informant disclosed this information the day after the shooting, not before, but after didn't alert anybody. Law enforcement officials actually took his information seriously because they'd actually kept a lot of the details of the murder a secret, including the fact that Thomas was shot twice, once in the chest and once in the shoulder, and that the shell casings found at the scene were from a nine millimeter. Copies of recordings, interviews, phone conversations, and the informants claims were reviewed. And it was decided that Thomas Clemence's murder was ordered by the 211 crew hierarchy, and Evan Ebel, a 211 crew soldier, was sent to complete the deed. So one of the recordings included an assertion from another informant that he had information inside information that a 211 crew general drove Ebel the night of the murder to Clemence's home in Monument in the getaway car, which was a 1991 black Cadillac Deville. Some law enforcement believe the Ebl acted alone, but others believed that this was more than a one man job. Many investigators actually continued to criticize el Paso County's former sheriff Bill Elder's statement in 2016 that there was no evidence to support a wider conspiracy. Elder believed that Ebol, identified by law enforcement as the gunman, acted as a lone wolf attacker. Elder has actually since backtracked and reopened the investigation after meeting with former governor John Hickenlooper and other investigators. Kori: I don't know. It sounds like a two man job. I don't know anybody in a gang who does anything alone. Amanda: Well, and when we get into it, you guys will hear. I mean, of course Evil had people outside of prison, but he spent a good chunk of his adult life in prison. And this was planned in a very I want to say a very short amount of time, but we'll get into it. Yeah. Kori: It is believed that Ebol worked with two other 211 crew members to orchestrate the assassination, but we have no way of proving that because Evan Ebel died in a shootout with Texas lawman on March 21, 2013, after crashing his car and shooting a Texas sheriff's deputy in the forehead, chest, and shoulder. Miraculously, the deputy survived. But the chance for justice and to know what really happened to Tom Clements died with Ebol before Ebol's inevitable end and would be murder charge. Ebel actually kidnapped and killed Nathan Lyon. Nathan was just 27 years old when he was killed for his pizza delivery uniform. Ebol didn't take Nathan's phone or car, just his uniform. A uniform that he wore part time just to bring in some extra cash for his family. His family. That was everything to him. He was a father to a six year old and two four year old twins. At the time of his death, Nathan was a husband, a son, and a father. He was a full time library assistant at IBM in Boulder, Colorado. After Ebol kidnapped Nathan, he forced him into the trunk of his car and demanded he record a message. Leon was forced to say prison authorities routinely disrespect inmates and their families. The rest of the message reads as follows, quote in short, you treated us inhumanely, and so we simply seek to do the same. We take comfort in the knowledge that we leave your wives without husbands and your children fatherless. You wanted to play the mad scientist? Well, they will be your Frankenstein. Nathan Leone was reported missing on March 17, 2013 from the Domino's Pizza he was working at around 02:00 p.m.. His body was discovered later that evening with an apparent gunshot wound in Golden, Colorado. Amanda: This is the part of the story that really gets overlooked, and it just is so sad to me because he's such a young guy and he was working. Kori: Yeah, he didn't have anything to do with anything. He was just doing his side job to make some money for his family. Had nothing to do with anything. Amanda: Right? And while Evil may have felt that he was trying to react to get his revenge, what the **** did Nathan have to do with any of it, right? Be like, dude, I'm going to hold you at gunpoint. Give me your shirt and your visor. Kori: Right? Amanda: If that's all you wanted, right? Kori: Why did you have to kill him? Amanda: Why did you have to go that far? Those little kids will never have to grow up without a dad. Kori: We'll never know what goes on in the mind of people who kill other people. You and I and other people can talk about all day how we feel like we could kill that person or this person, but our minds aren't wired to actually that doesn't actually happen for us and other people that we know, friends, family, we would honestly never do that. And I think people who live next door to a killer and they're like, man, he seemed like the nicest man. You have to have known something. There's always red flags for these kinds of things. Like, Evan Ebel was a walking red flag. And no one think, I don't know. Amanda: Oh, absolutely. And we're actually going to get into it right now when we talk about who Evan was. So Evan Spencer Ebel, also known as evil Ebol, he was born in 1985 to Jack and Jody Ebble. Not much is known about his childhood other than the fact that it was troubled. His parents actually sent him to several self help camps to correct his ever growing behavioral problems, but nothing seemed to work. From there. His problems only grew. Ebel's violence seemed to pick up after the death of his sister. When he was 18, he was arrested for holding an acquaintance at gunpoint and stealing their wallet. After that, he was involved in two armed robberies and was sentenced to serve eight years in 2005. During his stint in prison, ebel seemed to have a hard time following the rules. He actually attacked a correctional officer in 2006 and spent much of the remainder of his sentence in solitary confinement. His family felt that this deeply affected him and only furthered his violent tendencies. Ebol was released on January 28, 2013, after a clerical error. He was supposed to serve a four year sentence that ran consecutively to his sentence that he was already serving. But it wasn't specified in the court documents, so it ran. King currently or at the same time, on March 6, 2013, evel had a friend named Stevie Veehill, who was only 22 at the time, purchased a nine millimeter handgun for him. And with his previous felony charges, he wasn't allowed to purchase a gun. So she purchased a gun for him, and then two days later, gave it to Ebol. She paid $611.0.97 cash. Ebl then removed his ankle monitor in preparation for his crime spree. And it is worth noting that Stevie V. Hill was sentenced to 27 months in a federal prison for her part in the crimes. A gun that she purchased was used in the murder of two men and really the attempted murder of several others. Kori: And I'm sorry, it's not like she didn't know, right? Why else would you buy a gun for somebody who can't buy a gun, right? Amanda: Yeah. They were apparently family friends. Well, if you really were that close to the family, don't you think you would have known that he had a felony conviction? And any of you listening, right? And anyone listening, if you have a felony conviction, you cannot own or possess a firearm in the state of Colorado. Kori: So don't get somebody to buy you one. Amanda: No. To go commit a crime. Kori: Don't do that to your friends. You don't need it. Amanda: No. Kori: Be nice to your friends. Amanda: Be nice to your friends. Kori: So on the evening of March 19, 2013, an unsuspecting Thomas opened the door to what he believed was pizza delivery. He was like, Man, I'd like some pizza. He was shot dead in the forearm of his own home. Ebol fled the scene and made his way to Texas. On March 21, 2013, Evan Ebell arrived in Bowie, Texas, still driving the stolen 90 91 black Cadillac Deville with mismatched license plate like, that's not going to get you pulled over. Texas deputy James Boyd noticed the vehicle and. Pulled it over. Told you. Ebol shot Deputy Boyd three times, leaving him for dead. He was shot twice in the chest and once in the forehead. Following the shooting, Ebb fled from the scene and a high speed chase began. The chase spanned two counties with speeds around 100 mph. Ebol continued to shoot at deputies as they pursued him. The chase finally ended when Ebble was hit by a semi truck. He exited the vehicle, but kept shooting at police. This is often times referred to as suicide by cop. Ebel missed every shot he took at the deputies, but was struck by return fire. He was flown from the scene to John Petersmith Hospital, the longest named hospital in Texas in Fort Worth, where he succumbed to his injuries. Amanda: Hey, everything is in Texas, right? Kori: Apparently, I don't know how to say succumbed, so there's that. Amanda: Hey, you redeemed yourself. You made it. Kori: Thank you. Deputy Boyd, while bleeding from his head, was cognitive enough to radio Ebel's vehicle description and direction of travel. Thankfully, an off duty officer and his mother, who was a nurse, stopped to help Deputy Boyd. His memory gets a little fuzzy after that. But after two months of physical therapy and determination, deputy Boyd returned to the force in May of 2013. Amanda: After Apple was shot, police descended and began searching the vehicle. Inside, they found Nathan Lyon's shirt and hat and a pizza box from Domino's. They found directions to Thomas Clement's house, bomb making materials and instructions, a voice recorder that Nathan Lyon was forced to use, duct tape, zip ties and surveillance equipment. A gun that was recovered from the vehicle also matched the ballistics from the shooting deaths of Nathan and Thomas. It's believed that Ebel was enraged at the amount of time that he spent in solitary in prison, and this was how he enacted his revenge. Ironically, Thomas Clemens was an advocate against the overuse and abuse of solitary confinement, according to prisonlegalnews.com. Kori: Following the murder of his predecessor, rick Rammish was appointed director to the Colorado Doc and dispersed 211 crew members to prisons of various other states, including Wyoming, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, West Virginia, Ohio, and Kentucky, calling it one of the most influential tools available to corrections officials. Ramish said such transfers were often used to disrupt gangs like the 211 Crew, which had aligned itself with other white supremacist gangs. So do you think those guys just started gangs in other states like West Virginia? Amanda: Oh, gosh, probably. There's always going to be a place in correctional facilities for gangs, unfortunately. But maybe this will be helpful to kind of break it up. Yeah, make it trickier to start your gang. Called it a club. Kori: A club, a cult, a gang, whatever. Amanda: They just get together to cook on the weekends. No, not these guys. They have a book, sweaters. Kori: I'm sorry. We're not making fun of this gang or anything. Amanda: Please don't fight us. Kori: We're not good at fighting. Amanda: No, we're not we have nothing against you. Kori: We do. Amanda: Damage. We'll cut that out so you don't murder us. Kori: It's fine. Amanda: Okay. Sorry. Kori: Illinois is a big state. Amanda: What? Kori: I said Illinois is a big state. Amanda: Yeah, but I don't live in Illinois. Kori: Oh, God. Amanda: Selfish wealthish. Kori: Sorry, my bad. Don't come from no, it's going to. Amanda: Get me because I'm in a new state. I moved. If you guys didn't know, Lord did you? Kori: Pretty sure we've talked about it every episode. So yeah. Amanda: It's your personality. It's who you are. It's fine. Kori: I know. Comedic relief. Amanda: All right, folks. Well, I think that's where we're going to end this episode. Corey, do you have any other thoughts or comments? Kori: No, I don't think so. I mean, we talked a long time and that's all. Amanda: I have talked a long time. Kori: We talked a long time. But for serial killer Tuesday, that's happening. We are going to be talking about some serial killers. And I got this cool cereal killer cookbook. So maybe we'll have, like a recipe reading or something at the end of some of the podcasts. That'd be kind of cool. Amanda: That would be cool. Kori: You couldn't cook what a serial killer ate at his last meal. Amanda: I'm so gross. That's like one of my favorite things to look up. Kori: Serial killer last meals? Amanda: Yeah. Kori: Or killer last meals. Amanda: Yeah. I want to know what you ate. Think about, like, if I die, this was my last meal. How depressing. Kori: I know. My last meal is peanuts. Amanda: Oh, mine was spaghetti, and it wasn't good spaghetti either. Kori: Oh, no. What happened? Amanda: I don't know. It just wasn't great. Kori: Sorry about that. I made biscuits this morning. Amanda: Because I. Kori: Don'T have a job. She probably cook stuff. Amanda: I hate cooking. Kori: These biscuits are easy. You cook them all, you make the dough, and then you put them in an eight by eight into melted butter and kind of cut them up into nine pieces and then bake them in the oven and then come out looking like biscuits. Amanda: That's a hard note for me. Kori: Because you would have to cook it. Amanda: Yes. I don't know if I've talked about it before, but I'm on this sourdough starter kick. Kori: I hate sourdough starter. Please don't send me any. I don't want it. Amanda: Oh, my God, that's so funny. I'm not going to get one because Chris was like, you are not making bread. Kori: No. Amanda: And I was like, but it's so cool to watch them. They feed it. It's like a pet. Kori: Yeah, not for me. So little known fact about me now. It's going to be a widespread fact about me if you give me your sourdough starter. It's my house where it goes to die. Amanda: That's fair. Kori: Yeah. I make one thing out of it, even with Amish bread starter, I make one loaf of bread, maybe two, and then I'm done with it. They throw it away. Amanda: Well, because it becomes a job. Kori: Yeah. I don't have time for that. Even though I don't have a job, I don't have time for that. I don't want to babysit it. I don't want to love it. I don't want to give it things. No, thank you. It's not for me. Amanda: I don't know. I like watching them to watch so. Kori: Much work and I don't have time for that. Amanda: Well, yeah, but I'm like, I'm going to go be like a homesteader and I'll bake biscuits in the morning and. Kori: I just gave you a recipe to bake biscuits and you poopooed. Amanda: That because I'm not a sourdough starter homesteader. Kori: That's why you just want to play one on TV. Amanda: I just want to play one on TV. I always tell that well to everybody. I'm like, I'm not an attorney, but I play one in the shower and I have not lost a case yet. I was working for an attorney. I know where to go. Kori: I'm not a singer, but I also play one in the shower. Amanda: Oh, God. Like my favorite when I'm, like, driving home, it's like one thing I actually miss about working at the jail and working those weird hours. Kori: Your long gas commute. Amanda: Yeah. Kori: Where you hit a deer that time. Amanda: Yeah. Kori: Oh, sad. Amanda: I cried. I don't remember who that deputy was, but he was like, well, it's nice to meet you. And I'm like. Kori: Was it Reuben? What's his name? Ruben? Amanda: I don't remember. I want to say his last name was Maybe, like Robley's. Kori: I think his first name is Reuben. Amanda: Maybe that's who it was. Kori: Maybe. Amanda: Well, he was very nice and he was like, well, where are you coming from? I see your shirt and I'm like, I work in booking. And he's like, oh, are you new? Yeah, I think it's like my second month being there. No, I think it was still like you had only been there for like 45 days and I'd already crashed my car twice. Kori: Yeah, that was a long drive for you. Amanda: I know, but you know how much quality time I got in with Taylor Swift? Kori: I love Taylor Swift. Amanda: Sames. Kori: I know people don't like her and we're probably going to get ****, but. Amanda: I I don't don't care. Kori: I like her. I have a playlist that's just Taylor swift, post Malone and Miley Cyrus. That's an odd right? Amanda: Collection. Very eclectic. Kori: And then it has some 80s hairband music thread in there for variety. Amanda: If anybody knows me in real life, you know I'm a diehard 80s fan. I'm not kidding. I'm not listening to 80s. It's Taylor Swift. And if it's not Taylor Swift, it's a true crime podcast. That's it. That's my variety. I live dangerously. Kori: You live on the dangerous side. Amanda: I had an 80s themed birthday party. Kori: I know. Amanda: I love it. Kori: We had an 80 themed crime mystery party. Amanda: I know. And I won best costume. Kori: You did. Amanda: I know because I have the best costume. And I'll tell you about it every time, too. Kori: It was a good costume. Amanda: I told everybody. Kori: Everyone looked great. Amanda: Oh, my God. Kori: Stop it. Amanda: You shouldn't have let me win. It's fine. I liked the girl who wore the pink. Kori: People voted for you. Amanda: Oh, yeah, she should have won. Kori: She's awesome. Amanda: Oh, my God. She's funny. Kori: Yeah. That's my sister's friend from her work. Amanda: Well, she's very funny. Sister from work. Kori: I would tell you her name, but. Amanda: I can't remember right now for some reason. I think it's Polly, but that could have been her character. Kori: Yeah, I don't think it's Paulie. Amanda: Well, hopefully she's not listening. I was like, Corey, I've had dinner with you 18 times when my child left. Kori: I have her on email and all kinds of stuff. We did a bubble run together, and I can't for the life of me remember her name. Amanda: Oh, my gosh. Kori: Really? I'm a terrible human. Terrible. Amanda: Speaking of Taylor Swift, have you been keeping up with our nepo baby and Selena Gomez's feud? Kori: No. Amanda: Yeah, they're feuding hard right now. It's like Selena Gomez against Hayley Bieber and Kylie Jenner. Kori: I did see, like, a little thing about it on Instagram, but I really didn't pay attention too much. Amanda: Yeah, they're like, being mean girls. And I'm sorry, but I love Selena Gomez. I saw her in concert, which is true crime related to everybody, because I saw her in concert, and Christina Greaney opened for her, and then she was actually killed by an Obsessive fan at one point. Kori: Yeah, she was from TikTok, right? YouTube? The chick you were talking about was from YouTube or something. She was on the Voice, I think. Amanda: She was on the Voice. Kori: Yeah, I just watched a thing about her on Dateline, like famous Murders or something like that. Yeah, it also had the guy that was on Sons of Anarchy that went crazy and killed not crazy, because that's not the right term. He went mad. Amanda: Didn't he kill his family? Kori: No, not for his landlord. Yeah, he was at the Riders House in Los Angeles and killed the landlord and her cat. Amanda: Oh, that's crazy. That was a very interesting special I want to watch. We should cover it. But I never heard of it. I'm listening to a podcast right now about Michael Peterson and Kathleen Peterson. I think it was on Netflix, and I want to say it was either Netflix or HBO, and it's a series called The Staircase, and he actually was accused of pushing her down the stairs, and she died. And they're doing, like, a whole deep dive on it right now in this podcast that I'm listening to, and it's just crazy. I never watched the documentary, but if you're interested, it is on Netflix or HBO, but it's a really interesting case. They lived oh, God, I don't even remember where they lived. Somewhere like the Hamptons or something crazy like that. But, yeah, interesting. She was, like, very highly paid. He was a writer. He had actually just had his book option for a movie. And then she was found dead at 02:00 A.m.. He found her dead on their staircase, and he was arrested and tried for her murder. And he actually took an Alfred plea where he pled he pled guilty without pleading guilty. Kori: Right. Amanda: And, yeah, there's something about an owl also, that maybe he said there was an owl that attacked her, and I think it was based on her head wounds because she was found on her back. But I mean, like, the whole staircase, the whole bottom of the staircase was just covered in blood. Kori: Do you think he killed her? Amanda: So far, no. Kori: Okay. Amanda: But I'm, like, barely in the middle of this podcast, so I don't know. And I don't know why I didn't keep up on this case, but so far, no, I don't think he did. Have you ever heard of it? Kori: I don't think I've heard of it when I start listening to it, because after a while, when you listen to so many, they all sound the same. Unfortunately, they all sound the same. Amanda: Yeah, well, it's a good one. Right now I'm listening to it on Crime Weekly with Stephanie Harlow and Derek Lavasser. She's like the queen of deep dives. And I love it. I want to hear everything nice. I know. So if you're in the market, it's a great podcast. Kori: Shout out to my sister who just got a refund from her food delivery company because someone stole her food delivery off of her porch. I know, right? Amanda: Oh, my God. How rude. Kori: And they're in for a surprise because the guy looked because she has a picture of him on her camera. He looks like your typical front door porch package dealer. Amanda: Porch pirate. Kori: And I bet he's in for a surprise. He was thinking he was getting this fiancee meal from the meal delivery service, and she's a vegetarian, so good luck to you, buddy. Amanda: That's terrible. Kori: It's probably really good, but terrible for someone who's thinking that there's steak in there, right? There is not no steak in there. Amanda: You might get a ferky leg. Kori: Shout out to her getting her money back. Congratulations. Amanda: Get it. Kori: She's going to be so happy she's on this podcast. Amanda: Was it fan Annie? Kori: Yeah, it was fan Annie. I know. Amanda: She's made her appearances on our podcast. Kori: She has. Now she's getting it because she was. Amanda: The victim of a crime we should investigate. Give us his photo. We'll plaster it. Kori: Okay, I will. Amanda: He'll be the thumbnail jerk. Teach you to porch pirate someone's vegetarian meal. Kori: Right? Why would you steal it? What is wrong with you? Amanda: Yeah, that's a weird thing to steal. Kori: I bet he thought it was going to be something cool, and then he gets at home and it's just a whole bunch of vegetarian food. Amanda: You know what I wish it was like? If I was going to steal somebody's food. I would hope that it was that chocolate cake from PF. Chang's. The Great Wall. Kori: Yeah. Amanda: Oh, my God. That's what I want right now. Kori: I don't know what I want right now. Amanda: That's what I would hope it would be. Kori: That or Tiramisu. Amanda: Yes. Happy sparkle rainbow time. Kori: Happy sparkle rainbow time. That will never not be funny. Amanda: It will never not be funny. You are right. Maybe we'll fill you guys in on that one someday. All right, crime fans, that's a wrap on this week's episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. Keep those case requests coming. If you haven't already, please subscribe so you can be notified every time we upload. Up a load up below. Oh, no, I'm going to redo that. Kori: Okay. Amanda: All right, crime fans, that's a wrap on this week's episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. Keep those case requests coming. If you haven't already, please subscribe so you can be notified every time we upload. If you enjoy listening to us every week, please share our podcast with your friends and leave us a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, leave us a review and we will read it in our next episode. New episodes are released every Friday at 10:30 a.m. Mountain Standard Time. Please follow us on Instagram at Colorado Crime Pod or on Facebook at colorado Crime podcast. For information on next week's episode, as well as other true crime happenings, remember to check out our new series, serial Killer Tuesday, every Tuesday at 02:00, P.m. Mountain Standard Time for deep dives on all the most prolific serial killers. We hope you have a beautiful day wherever you are. And as always, stay safe. Kori: On that note, happy Friday. We hope you all have a great weekend with whatever you have planned. Amanda: Superdupa. Superdupa.