Episode 23- Sean May: Murdered By Mistake?

Amanda: Hey there, all you true crime fans. I'm Amanda. Kori: And hey, I'm still Kori. Amanda: And welcome back to Colorado Crime. You guys know the drill. We're just two best friends who want to chat about all things true crime. This week's case is another one from our home state of Colorado. So without any further ado, let's jump into this week's joke. Kori: Okay, I hope everyone's sitting down for this one. It's hilarious. So this joke was sent in to us by my old coworker Annie, who has the same name as my sister Annie, and my sister Annie was also my old coworker. But these are two different people. Amanda: They are two different people. That's not confusing. Kori: No, it's not at all. Thanks, Annie, for sending this great joke. So are you ready? Amanda: Yeah. Kori: Do they allow loud laughing in Hawaii or just aloha? Amanda: Oh, God. Aloha. I like that one, actually. Kori: It's funny. Amanda: Now. Kori: She has a lot of crazy jokes too. Her and I used to annoy Megan with our jokes and the fact that we called each other bro and different versions of bro, like bro Safine brosa. Bro Safine, bro tated chips. We had a lot. Amanda: I like to call the dogs like, oh, do you guys want a little snackeroni and cheese? Kori: That's funny. Amanda: Little snackeroni. Chris is like, please stop. Leave the dog. Kori: That's what Candace tells me about bro. Stop saying bro. Amanda: My nieces say bro and I hate it. They call their mom bro and I'm like, shut up. I will beat you. Kori: Yeah, I have a bad habit. Call everyone bro. Like, hey, bro. I don't know why. Probably because at work, we really did. Like, our chat groups were named, like, the original the OG Brosives. Amanda: The OG, brojis. Kori: Yeah, we had a lot. Amanda: I like it. Kori: It's funny. Amanda: The high school is doing, like, those baby simulators, which I never gotten. Kori: Really jealous. Terrible. Amanda: I'm so jealous. So I was there. Kori: We didn't have those either. Amanda: Well, these babies are like, $1,000. And one of our kids, for every 15 minutes came in, and he had a baby. And I was like, can I hold your baby? And at first he was like, sure. Well, then I shook the baby, and he was not happy. It took a lot of bribing, but he finally let me hold it and he named the baby mosque. And I named the baby everything else but mosque. And I refused to call it mosque. Kori: Well, that's a terrible name. Amanda: That's what I said. I named it Ralph. Kori: Ralph Howard's. A good name. Amanda: Roger Howard. I named it everything. I was like, come on, let's get funky with it here. He was not thrilled. Kori: It is a good life lesson. Amanda: Cool. And I would like one. So thanks for letting me hold your fake baby. Also, I stopped a girl in the hallway and I was like, can I hold your fake baby? And she was like, yes. And she let me hold her fake baby. I was like, they're so cool. Kori: I wish we would have had please hold this baby. Amanda: They had just gotten them. They turned on at noon, so I shook it before noon. I just had a car seat and I wanted to see if it would do anything, so I jolted it a little bit a lot. Kori: They are pretty interesting. I don't know if it's the same as having a real baby, but I. Amanda: Mean well, I shook it and nothing happened. Don't do that to a real baby, guys. Kori: No. Amanda: Never shake a baby. Kori: Never shake a baby. We learn a lot of life lessons here. Don't take candy from a man in a van and never shake a baby. Amanda: Hey, isn't that a thing? It's the man in the van. Or man with a van. Isn't that a commercial? Kori: Yeah, it's for good times. It's the man in the van for good times. Amanda: Well, don't take anything from him either. That's not a good marketing ploy. Kori: No. Amanda: All right, my dudes. Well, I want to give a shout out this week. Shout out time. Shout out to our friend. Well, Chris and I friend Veronica and Tony, so they're friends of mine and my husband's, and they've been listening to us. So Veronica, if you're listening, you're the best and thank you so much for your support. Kori: Yay. I don't know Veronica and Tony, but yay. Thank you for listening to us. Amanda: They're the best. We really like them. We've had a lot of fun with them. Kori: Nice. Amanda: I know. Kori: I wanted just to remind everybody that we really appreciate all the questions, comments, and reviews. Those really help us. We're just so thankful that we have a lot of free time that we could because I don't work and I moved away, so I just wanted to throw that out there because I don't think you guys know I moved to Illinois. Amanda: What? I know it sounds so weird in. Kori: The same room with you. Amanda: I had no idea. Kori: I know, I'm so sorry, guys. I moved away, so it's just nice that we can carve out a couple of hours in our day and bust these out. It really takes longer than that, just so you know. Amanda: It does. I've got all these fake jobs right now. I've got podcast I've got every 15 minutes. Plus I have my real job, which is keeping me busy. Kori: Yeah, working. I don't have a real job, but I have this house and I have my handyman, which are turning into kind of like family because now we eat lunch together. I baked them a cake today. They're just painting away. Amanda: I love cake. Kori: It's blueberry cake. Amanda: I just had a blueberry muffin. Kori: Oh, nice. Amanda: I know. They went with my boss this morning. We went and had coffee, so hi, Jackie. But yeah, I had a blueberry muffin. It was delicious. Kori: So I want to throw out a shameless plug. You guys should be sure to listen to our serial Killer Tuesday on SKT. We try and do a month long deep dive into different serial killer lives. Sometimes there's not a whole lot about them, so it might be three episodes, not four. Or short episodes, so we can get four in. The month of April is the son of Sam David Berkowitz month. So make sure you tune in every Tuesday at 02:00 p.m. To find out what makes some of the most prolific serial killers tick. And not like a clock. Amanda: The ticky talkie. Kori: I hope some of you saw our Facebook page today. Don't push people down the stairs. It's April Stress Month. Amanda: I only threaten to push Chris down the stairs, like, all the time, but I haven't done it yet. Kori: I gave some tips on how to keep your life stress free, so try that instead. Amanda: Probably don't have two fake jobs and a real job. Kori: And small people. Amanda: Yeah, my small people had strep my other small people. She was experiencing her first bout of heartbreak. Kori: Oh, no. Amanda: And I'm so sad for her. I know. Kori: Did her boyfriend move away? Amanda: No. So she's not allowed to have a boyfriend. She's only nine. Boy, that she really likes. And she's like four years, like, since preschool. He came up to her yesterday with her best friend, and they were like, we like each other. And then they ran away, and she was just devastated, and she had like, the worst night, and she was so nervous about school and poor little thing. Kori: That's sad. Amanda: I know. So she's very sad. So everybody tell Emerson that she deserves better. My kid's scum. Kori: Emerson, you deserve better. Boys are stupid. Throw rocks at them, but not real rocks because you don't get in trouble. Amanda: Yeah, or push them down the stairs, because that's bad, too. All right, let's get into some true crime updates. Okay, so this week for you guys, I have a story for all you Colorado people. So leticia Stout's trial began on Monday. This week, Leticia she lived in Colorado Springs, is accused of stabbing her stepson, Gannon, 18 times and shooting him in the head before driving his remains across the country to dispose of him in the Florida panhandle. Sugannon was just eleven years old when he was murdered by his stepmother in his own bedroom. He was reported missing on January 27, 2020, while his father was deployed with the National Guard. While Leticia has yet to divulge a motive, it's believed that she felt resentful in her marriage and was tired of being treated like an unpaid babysitter. Leticia has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity, claiming that she suffered a, quote, major psychotic crack as a result of childhood trauma when she killed Gannon. Leticia was arrested in South Carolina on March 2, 2020, and Gannon's remains were found stuffed inside of a suitcase a few weeks later. So we'll keep you updated as this one progresses, but personally, I hope that ***** rots in hell. Like, the depths of the pits of hell. And I get it, like, mental health problems or not, what she did to that little boy was absolutely despicable. Kori: Yeah, she's a terrible person. While his dad's away, for real, you knew marrying him, he had a child, like, what do you think was going to happen? Amanda: I agree. **** her. Kori: So I know that we have talked a little bit about Brian Walsh here and there, but here's a little bit more. So if you all know, brian Walsh has been accused of misleading the police in the investigation of his missing wife, Anna. Well, as of March 31, 2023, he has now been formally charged with first degree murder, misleading a police investigation, and improper conveyance of a human body. Despite the police not being able to find her body. Anne Walsh first went missing on New Year's Day of this year and was not reported missing until January 4. She was supposed to be traveling to DC for work. Her coworkers were actually the ones that reported her missing to the police first after she didn't show up. And then Brian, probably about an hour or so later, also reported her missing. The police alleged that they have him on surveillance footage buying $450 worth of cleaning supplies, including tarps and buckets. They also alleged that they found a damaged knife and traces of blood in the basement of the family's home. They also found evidence at a transfer station in Peabody, Massachusetts, including trash bags with blood, a hatchet, a hacksaw, a rug, and used cleaning supplies. His car has also been impounded and is showing signs of being cleaned. Police believe that Anna Walsh's remains were thrown into a dumpster in Ambington before being shredded and incinerated. They also allege that there are Internet searches on the family iPad for how long before a body starts to smell, and ten ways to dump a body, not ten ways to lose a man. As well as research on what effect ammonia would have on a corpse. At the time of Anna's supposed murder, brian was wearing an ankle monitor, which unfortunately was not equipped with GPS monitoring because he said he needed to take his son to school, blah, blah, blah, as he was waiting sentencing on a fraud case over an art scam. So he just is a con man. In previous court cases, he's been described by witnesses as a sociopath and also as a very angry and physically violent person. It was also discovered that Anna may have been the victim of domestic violence, as she had called the police over his alleged threats to kill her, but ended up dropping them. So that's weird, right? Amanda: That is weird. Kori: It's weird that you search it on your iPad like a dumb ***. Amanda: It's so sad to me. Kori: I also have a little tiny funny story because it made me laugh real hard when I was reading about it. So some inmates in Fulton County, Georgia enjoyed a steak dinner and some soda in their cells last week. How'd that happen? You ask. How'd that happen? Amanda: Corey. How Corey? Kori: I'll tell you. They scammed an officer to bring it in for them, which means they paid someone to bring in a full steak dinner to the jail for them to eat. They were caught on the CCTV camera inside the jail, and that's also a direct violation of Fulton County or really any jail or prison policy. So I hope it was worth it for the employee once they figure out who it is and that person will be disciplined according to the department policy. You just lost your job for over some date, right? Amanda: You don't even get to enjoy. Yeah, probably made it or she. They right. Kori: I mean, if they grilled it, it's probably pretty good. But if you got it from someplace like Applebee's no offense to Applebee's, but it's not really a good place to buy a steak from. Amanda: No. Kori: Well, not Texas Roadhouse. Amanda: I do love their rolls. Kori: Or outback. We have outback here. Amanda: I don't like outback. I like Texas Roadhouse, though. And they're butter and they have, like, the best ranch dressing. I'll just get a side of ranch so I could just drink that, please. That'd be great. But how did he not think or she bay this deputy not think that it was going to be recorded? All the places to go. You were like, I'm going to bring this food to jail. Kori: Did you carry it in, like, the styrofoam container it came in? Did you put it in your lunch? Because some of those jails your **** gets searched. Amanda: He probably put it in. Kori: So you just had your five steak dinners, your five steak dinners in your lunch bag. Amanda: I'm real hungry. Kori: And then you're carrying it around. People are like, why are you carrying your lunch bag around? He's like, oh, no, you do steak. Amanda: It's bulk season. I actually don't know what you eat to bulk up, but I don't either. Steaks? Kori: Yeah. I don't know if it's five. I just threw out that number. Amanda: But don't you think you'd have a tummy ache from all that steak, especially. Kori: If you hadn't ate steak in a long time? Amanda: Yeah, like red meat does not sit well with me. What an idiot. Kori: Yeah, you've been in jail for like six or eight months and you haven't had a steak. I hope your stomach is upset. Amanda: I hope you **** for weeks. Maybe that was the problem. They were in all that jail food and they were like, oh, you know what? ****. We got a ****. Please bring watch steak. Kori: I was watching Court TV because they've been talking about Alex Murdoch's cousin Eddie, who's in jail right now. My cousin Eddie? Amanda: Isn't that a movie? Yeah, but it's his cousin Eddie. Kori: Yeah, but he's talking about how he gained £55 in jail and one of the people on the panel was like, how do you gain that much in jail? And I'm like, each meal is like 2000 to 2500 calories. It's no joke. No, that's how you gain £55. If you're eating three meals a day at 2000 calories, you could be on my 600 pound life. Amanda: Right. Kori: Rich reminds me, jail food is really gross, so don't go there. And I know because when we had COVID, the jail was short staffed and all the trustees who served the meals had COVID. So jail employees had to serve meals. And I served meal because I'm a good employee and pat myself on the back. Nothing else to do. So I was like, you know what? I can help do this. First of all, it's hot as balls in my kitchen. And the food gross, broccoli. Yeah, it's gross. And we didn't even have broccoli and it still smelled like smooshy broccoli. Amanda: I know. Every day it smells like that. I don't know why, I just remember the cookies. Those are good. Kori: Yeah, those aren't too bad cookies. They had cake and brownies and stuff. It's not terrible, but it's 2000 calories. Amanda: Yeah. And I mean, you have to think like somebody's making those. And it's not a guard. It's not the kitchen staff. Kori: Yeah, sometimes it's the kitchen staff. Amanda: Sometimes it is, but sometimes the kitchen staff consists just watches over of inmates. Kori: Yeah. Amanda: Who cook your cookies? I don't care. Don't ruin cookies for everyone. Kori: Okay, I won't. Cookies are delicious. Amanda: They're so good. Kori: Okay, cool. Amanda: Well, let's get into this week's case. Kori: Let's do it, do it, do it. Amanda: So jazzy of you. Kori: I know. I'm in a better mood today. Amanda: I love that for you. Kori: Thank you. I love that for me, too. Amanda: All right, well, this week's case is actually one that to this day remains unsolved. A husband killed, a father never to meet his son, and it could have all been a mistake. So this week we're going to talk about Sean May. Sean May began working as a Chief deputy district attorney with the 17th Judicial District Attorney's Office in 2001. He earned his law degree in 1998 from the University of Virginia. He didn't initially set out to become a district attorney, though. Sean accepted a job at Cooley's global Firm directly out of college. So Cooley's is actually an international company and an elite law firm for technology and life science companies, startups and emerging growth companies, and venture capital firms. So to say this was a sweet gig would sort of be an understatement. This was a very lucrative career that could have provided Sean with many, many opportunities. But in 2001, Sean left the company when he felt called to become a prosecutor for the Adams County District Attorney's Office. There he became a respected and successful prosecutor. In April of 2008, Sean received the Ed Towey Award for his outstanding service for the victims of crimes, and he was named Chief Trial Deputy just two months before his death. Sean often practiced his opening statements in front of his dog, which I think is such a cute little fact and such a special thing that people can go on to share with his son. Because I talk to my dogs all the time, and I'm actually pretty positive they get tired of hearing me gab on and on. But I don't care. I still talk to them. Kori: Yeah, I talked to mine too, but this week they've been kind of on my nerves because it's been thundering and lightning and storming, and Dexter is terrified of the lightning. And this morning he woke up. I don't know what time because I don't check it because otherwise I can't go to sleep. And it was still dark out, so I'm assuming it was dark time shaking, because he is a Chihuahua mix, so when he gets scared, he shakes like a tremoring train. Amanda: You'd be nice to my best friend. Kori: So he's sitting between the pillows, just shaking like a crazy person. And it was dark and I was annoyed. So we tried the whole comforting thing for a hot second, and then Candace tried the whole comforting thing for a hot second, and then I was like, F this. And I got up and he stayed the night in the closet. Oh, my God. When it became light outside, I opened up the closet door and he was like, hey, I hate you. And I'm like, well, I hate you, too. I don't know, it's you too. Amanda: Oh, my God. Kori: That's funny, because he doesn't like the lightning. He's kind of deaf, so he can't really hear the thunder anymore, but the lightning freaks him out. So now, of course, he's real tired, so he's sleeping. Amanda: Little sons of *******. Kori: Yeah. Sons of *******. Amanda: Luna likes to be up at 423 every day. She wants to get up, go downstairs, go potty, come inside, eat breakfast, go potty. And then she wants to come back and sleep. Kori: Yeah. Amanda: So we go back to bed till like six, and then I'm like, okay, we have to get up. And she's like, no. It's a no for me, dog. I have to. And she's like, you do, you boo. Kori: I already ate my breakfast. I'm fine. Amanda: Yeah, I don't need you anymore. Fine. Kori: Yeah. So he was a closet dog. Amanda: That's unfortunate for him. I'm glad you freed him. Kori: Yeah. You're welcome. Amanda: So during Sean's seven years of service in Adams County, he volunteered for the Child Victim Unit, where he pursued justice for children who had been physically and or sexually abused. At the time of his death, he was responsible for training and supervising new prosecutors. In this role, sean always stressed the importance of acting responsibly, including treating victims, the community defendants, and the courts with dignity and respect. Kori: On August 27, 2008, sean was driving home to his house in northwest Denver. From his office in brighton. At the time, he was calling a defense attorney friend to warn him that the family the man defended was making threats. Sean told the attorney to be careful. Shortly after the call ended, Sean pulled into the alley behind his beautiful brick bungalow. As he was headed into his house, he was ambushed by a gunman who shot him twice. Once in the back of the head and once in the lower back. Chief Deputy District Attorney Sean May, who was just 37 at the time, died a few hours later at the hospital. It was the first murder of a Colorado prosecutor that anyone could document and just the 11th killing of its kind in the country. Denver police detectives have never publicly confirmed if they suspect that Sean's murder was related to his work as a prosecutor or whether they are any closer to identifying a suspect. Detectives began carefully examining the countless cases that Sean was involved in. This must have been a huge undertaking, as it is estimated that in his four years as a senior prosecutor, sean was involved in roughly 1000 felony cases. And in the three years before that, he probably handled at least 3000 misdemeanor cases. Some of those misdemeanor cases did, however, involve domestic violence, and those cases can spark some pretty volatile emotions for all the people involved. Sean seemed like an all around cool guy. He loved the international talk like a pirate day. He also had a pedigree that opened many doors for him. He had an undergraduate degree from Stanford and a law degree from the University of Virginia. All his friends and coworkers have said that Sean was not the type of guy to get in an argument in the alley or have some escalating situation in his backyard. Sean's coworkers realized that they had been in a cocoon. They realized that they were worried about witnesses and police officers, but didn't worry about themselves. They started to take additional safety precautions. To this day, all pictures of district attorneys have been removed from the Adams County District Attorney's Office website. But. Amanda: Sean's murder could have been a mistake. There is a real possibility that Sean May was killed because a hit was placed on someone with the same last name. So let's think back a few cases ago. You'll remember we discussed another public figure who was murdered, thomas Clemens. He was allegedly murdered by 211 crew members. Well, Sean May's name was awfully similar to another Colorado district attorney. However, the other district attorney worked in El Paso County. So I'm going to give you guys a quick little geography lesson. El Paso County is south of Denver. It includes Colorado Springs, Fountain, Manitou Springs, Callahan Monument, Palmer Lake, Black Forest, Fort Carson, Peyton, Rush and Yoder, to name a few. Guess who lived in monument. Mr. Thomas Clemens. So all of that seems like a pretty big coincidence, right? Well, it gets weirder. The district attorney from El Paso County is named Dan May. As we were researching this case, we stumbled upon a few articles from varying news sites that claimed Sean May was murdered accidentally. So according to KDVR, El Paso County District Attorney Dan May has never prosecuted anyone for the 2013 assassination of Thomas Clements, the Colorado Department of Corrections director at the time due to its proximity to the unsolved murder of a district attorney. So a former El Paso County detective named Mark Poff told the news station, quote, I think it has to do with the Sean May murder. End quote. Mark Poff retired in 2014, but he actually worked the Thomas Clements case as a detective for the El Paso County Sheriff's Office. He went on to say that DA. Dan May may have been afraid to go after all the culprits in the Clements case because May may have been the actual target of a 2008 murder that's never been solved. In 2008, Dan May was a prosecutor in the 18th Judicial District, and he actually had a history of prosecuting 211 crew members. So the retired detective went on to explain that they had received intel from a CI or a confidential informant that actually confirmed the mistake and the connection. Kori: Interesting. This whole case gets weirder and weirder. Amanda: I know. Kori: First of all, as a hitman, you should probably get your name straight. So you're not just killing the wrong person, right? You're not a very good hitman. Amanda: Well, I mean, they're all behind bars, so they're all doing this communication from prison. And then someone gets out and they're. Kori: Like, did they say Sean? I don't know. Let's kill them all? Amanda: Well, they only killed one, though. Kori: People are dumb. Amanda: I know. Kori: So, days after Thomas Clemence was murdered, an informant sent a letter to the El Paso County Sheriff's Office. According to the article, KDVR.com obtained a copy of the letter and read it in part I overheard some gang members talking about a hit on a Colorado DA that went wrong. 211 murdered the wrong DA. See, the hit was put out on a DA May of Colorado Springs, El Paso County. But 211 ended up with the address of DA Sean May of the Adams, Denver County, and killed him at his home, thinking he was the real target. Poph believes Dan May was afraid for his life, and that is the reason he never convened a grand jury to go after the other 211 gang members who might have aided in Clement's assassination. Sean May left behind his wife, Corinne, both his mom and dad, Pat and Bill, his younger brother, Matt, and his unborn son, who was born just three months after his murder. A special reward of up to $125,000 is available through the Metro Crime Stoppers. It's the largest reward available through the group, which collects anonymous tips about unsolved crimes. Amanda: Anyone with information can call 720913 St o P and that's 720-913-7867 tips can also be submitted online through the Metro denver crimestoppers website. The tip line is answered 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and that is where we are going to end Sean May. Corey, what do you think this one was? Kind of a little conspiracy theory ish. Kori: It was a little conspiracy theory ish. And it was short because there's not a whole lot of information out. And I do think that people are terrified of 211. So I think that's probably a lot of it. That why no one's come forward and why they haven't really figured out who and what happened. Amanda: Do you think it'll ever be solved? Kori: I think in some way they know that it was probably someone from the 211 gang, but they'll probably never find out who it was. Amanda: If you guys are interested, there are two pictures online of people of interest that have never been identified. So if you guys wanted to look that up and see if you recognize. Kori: Them, yeah, you could submit your tips. Amanda: Yes. Pass that on. Kori: The crime stoppers website is for yes. Well, this one was pretty short because there really isn't a lot of information, which is good, because we have a boatload of questions. Do we do? So this is a good one. I'm leaving them all anonymous. I don't want to out anybody's questions, and I don't want to out anybody who maybe didn't want their name on, if this is your question. Thank you. It's really good. We really like it. We both have some pretty good answers about this one, so I'm going to read it, and then Amanda will answer, and then I will answer. Okay, cool. Okay, so this question is, do you have any personal connection to someone who has been killed or a murderer besides someone you have encountered in your time at jail? Amanda: So I do. Not that I can think of. Kori: I do. So one of my very best friend coworkers. Okay, so a little backstory about me. My dad was a deputy sheriff for the well county sheriff's office for 35, 37 years. Somewhere in there from like, 1976 until he retired in 2010, I think, 2010 or 2011. So he was there for a really long time. I started at the well county sheriff's office in 2004, and a little while after me, we all have badge numbers, and a little while after me, this awesome dude started on my dad's shift. His name was Sam Brownlee. My dad treated he was a commander, and that's when we had commanders and not corpus and lieutenants like it is now, and sergeants. So it was commanders and deputy threes and stuff like that. So my dad treated all his guys on his shift like they were his sons and family members. So on weekend days, they would all meet at restaurants for breakfast, and we would meet there, too. So it'd be my dad's crew and all of us meeting there for breakfast. So that's where I first met. Sam. And Sam was just a really cool he was like the brother I always wanted, and we had a really cool relationship. When he met his wife Heather, she had a house that was probably a block away from where I was living with my sister. And we would go over there and hang out with them. We did garage sales with them. They would pick us up when we go out to eat with my parents. It was a whole thing. We were like a little family. It was really amazing. He was killed in the line of duty chasing a suspect into Fort Morgan. I'm sorry. And he was shot with his own gun. Sorry. Amanda: Don't be sorry. Kori: He was killed. And it was horrible and traumatizing for Weld County, and it was horrible and traumatizing for his two kids and Heather's two kids. And it's probably the reason my dad retired. And it was just a really ****** situation, and it went down a way that it never should have gone down. And that guy died too. So it's not really a fair it's not really fair. And then I also worked with Tom Fallas. So we'll just leave that right there. Amanda: Oh, that is true. Kori: Yeah, that is true. That was a whole different thing. Yeah, sorry about that. Everyone a little broken up about that. Amanda: Don't be sorry. I didn't have the chance to meet Sam. He actually passed the Thanksgiving before I started. Kori: Right. Amanda: But, I mean, everything that I've heard from everybody, this isn't just like because Corey knew his family. I mean, everybody who knew him loved him. He was just one of those people that you met and you just instantly connected with, and it didn't matter who you were or where you were or where you came from. He was just kind of that person. Kori: And he was a really good deputy. He was really fair and kind. And the thing that people should aspire. Amanda: To be in policing absolutely everything that Tom Fallas wasn't. Wait, let me talk about that real quick because I don't work here. Kori: Yeah, you can. Amanda: I haven't been there in a long time. So I started in 2011, in August, and I decided that I was going to move up to Greeley and I was going to get my own apartment, which I'd never done. I'd never been by myself. And we used to carpool all the time. So it was New Year's Eve and Weld County was kind of a cool place because it really became a family. It wasn't just for our booking department or corrections. I mean, it was kind of all of Weld County. Anybody who worked patrol or in the jail or in booking or any of that. We were all kind of a family. Well, Tom Fallas had a party at his house and a ton of our jail guys were there. And apparently he claims that his wife had marijuana. And he freaked out and said, we can't have this. I'm going to lose my job. And then he claims she turned the gun on herself and shot herself in the head. The plot thickens, though, when I tell you that she actually had a child who had special needs, and she was, like, the most involved parent, and she sat on the board for the foundation, and she is the parent who would never have left her child. Kori: Yeah. Amanda: And typically when a woman kills herself, she doesn't use a gun. It's messy, and she doesn't want to be found unattractive. Kori: Right. Amanda: So he actually was arrested a lot later. A lot later. And he did go to trial for it, didn't he? Yeah. Kori: And was found not guilty. Amanda: He was found not guilty. And he didn't he left the state after the trial. Kori: He had actually left the state before they actually had to bring him back here. Amanda: He was extradited. Kori: Yeah. Whole F dub case, it was. Amanda: And I had just started there, and I remember thinking like, holy ****, I think I got my apartment in October, and this happened in January. And I remember being like, oh, my God, I don't want to live here anymore. It's so scary. Kori: Yeah. So those are two things. Amanda: Yeah. Kori: Good times. Amanda: Yeah. Kori: And they weren't just people we encountered there. I mean, we encountered them there, but they weren't people we like. Amanda: Yeah, my last one. I do have one. I'm sorry. Okay, so I grew up, my dad was a detective and then a commander for Federal Heights, and there was an officer there named Frank, and he was just, like, such a cool guy. And I'd known him since I was five, and he loved his job and he has three kids. And every year they did this huge Christmas drive and he was patrol deputy, so he would go out and he I mean, I don't know if you guys are familiar with Federal Heights, but it's not a very wealthy area, and a lot of it is trailer parks. And so he would interact with these people, and he'd go to the schools, and he kind of got to know these families who needed that extra help, and he created a toy drive at Christmas. Kori: That's cool. Amanda: It was cool. And I think it was what year are we in? I think it was 2021 that Federal Heights kind of went through a political shift, which, if you're not in law enforcement, I'm sure this is everywhere, but so much of law enforcement is political, and it is 1000% the reason I won't go back. Because it's not how good you are at your job. It's not what you know, it's who you know. Right. And unfortunately for Frank, he crossed the city manager, who I won't name, but look her up. She actually was investigated in Nestus Park, but she fired him, and she went out of her way to just destroy him and to destroy his character and even though none of it was true, he took it to heart and he took not to. Oh, absolutely. And he took his retirement and him and his wife were building a new house, and unfortunately, his oldest daughter found him dead in his garage last year. Kori: That suck. Amanda: All because of a stupid ******* witch hunt. Because one person didn't like anybody and the chief supported her because the chief didn't want to lose his job. And that is a whole nother story. And that's what happens to good police work. You lose the good officers because they actually give a **** about their job. Kori: The bad ones that suck. Amanda: Yes. And all they want to do is kiss somebody's *** so that they can climb the ranks. Kori: Yes. Amanda: That's my soapbox. I'm going to get off. Kori: Yeah, that's how I feel, too. You lose a lot of good officers and deputies to ****** ones. Amanda: Yes. ****** management. Kori: We have a whole see something, don't say anything mentality. And when you have that, instead of one crappy officer, you now have 1000 crappy officers. Because if one doesn't say anything, nobody else is going to. Amanda: Yes. And nobody wants to lose their job. I mean, I could talk about that with booking. We had a great department and a ****** manager, and we ******* fell apart because of it. And ask any of us who were there during that time. All of us have PTSD from her. Kori: Yes. Amanda: Because you have one ****** leader and she messes it up for everybody. Or he messes it up for everybody. Kori: Yes. Amanda: And it's ridiculous. We're off our soapbox. We can move on to our next question. Kori: So we have another one. Who is your favorite serial killer and why do you have a favorite serial killer? Amanda: Okay, I hate using the word favorite. It's such a yucky feeling because it's not I don't want to say, like, oh, my God, they're my favorite. Kori: I know, but there's not one way to say it. There isn't. There isn't a better way to say it. Amanda: But I have two that I just find fascinating. Kori: Okay. Amanda: My first one is Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold from Columbine. They completely changed the world. Kori: Yeah, they did. Amanda: And not in a good way. Kori: No. Amanda: And it just baffles me how two young kids can have that much anger and hatred inside of them. And so they're not my favorite. But the way that they went from being teenage boys to being these prolific spree killers, it just boggles my brain. Kori: Yeah. Amanda: And my other one would be one that we're going to cover later, so I'm not going to talk about that one. But when we do get to that episode, I will totally tell you guys, because that one's fascinating. But I'll say my other one would be Ted Bundy, just because other people. Kori: Find him so fascinating. Amanda: Oh, my God. Everybody thought he was, like, so attractive, and he's awful looking, and it just. Kori: For me, it's the Zodiac Killer. Amanda: Oh, that's a good one. Kori: Yeah. I find it interesting that this person killed so many people and no one has ever figured out who they are. Amanda: Yeah. Sounds crazy. Kori: Ever? Never. They never figured it out. He unsolved. All of those murders unsolved. They know it was one guy, the Zodiac Killer. They don't know who he is. They've never figured it out. I also find I like that Jack the Ripper, because that's the same kind of instance, but that was back in the 18 hundreds and in England. But I find it fascinating that someone just went around killing, like, gutting prostitutes, basically, and no one ever they never solved it. So I find that I found both of those cases pretty well. All those two are fascinating to me. I agree. Why do I have a favorite serial killer? Because I'm a sociopath. It's fine. Amanda: I don't think I'm a sociopath. God, I hope not. Kori: Probably not really. But. Amanda: I really like to know how their mind works. I like how they went from A to B to C, and I want to know what got them there. Kori: Right. It is very interesting, like how you wake up one day and you're like, you know what? I'm going to kill a bunch of people. That's what I'm going to do today. And not spree, because that's spree killer. A serial killer is someone who kills people over a long period of time. A spree killer is somebody a spree or mass murderer kills people, a bunch of people in a short amount of time. Amanda: I know there's a difference. Kori: Killing is interesting, too. I mean, that's why a lot of times people say, don't go postal. Because that did happen. Amanda: It did happen. Yeah. But no. Okay, so here's another one. Kori: Ready? Amanda: Yes. Kori: Why do ladies think that Dean Coral isn't a widely known serial killer? Amanda: I think because it was the feel like back then, things weren't as publicly known. And I think that as a society, everything kind of got swept under the rug. So there was still that illusion that you can have the white picket fence and live happily ever after and everything. Kori: Was safe and your kids could play. Amanda: Outside until it was dark and stuff. Kori: Yeah. Amanda: So I think that's a lot of it was that American Dream safety net kind of feel. Kori: Well, yeah. And I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It was the lot of people didn't have like you didn't have necessarily your own phone line. Sometimes you had a party line. There was no cellular devices, no social media. Some people didn't even have TVs. Like you listened to the radio. There were a lot of things that happened in the late 60s, early 70s that didn't it wasn't like it is now. So I think that's a lot of it and the fact that his murders were no one was finding bodies, so that's the other thing. Well, they didn't find bodies until he was killed. Amanda: Right. And a man sleeping with another man back then wouldn't was even worse. There was completely a different thought process when it came to homosexuality. Yeah. It was such a taboo thing that nobody wanted to talk about it and that it was icky and that those people were asking for it. And that is something that I've been really impressed with in the 2020s is I feel like even in the late 2000s is we as a society have really, most of us tennessee, I'm looking at you. We've really tried to grow as people. Yeah. It just wasn't a thing back in the also think that we hadn't reached the that whole satanic panic thing and the drugs and HIV. So the news media didn't really catastrophize things back then. No, it was like, oh, let's go look at this kitty clothing show. Kori: Right. Amanda: Probably not a kitty clothing show. It'd probably be you know what I mean? It was a little bit more sunshine and puppies and less like doom and gloom. Kori: Right. So the sub question of that was, do you think it has anything to do with the media or lack of media? And yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with that too. I do think that there wasn't a huge media coverage because first of all, it was teenage boys missing. And back in the 70s, people ran away a lot. There was a lot of hitchhiking, and people did leave, and people did run away. However, the families of these boys knew that that wasn't their son. And the other sub question was, do you think it had anything to do with the lack of law enforcement presence or the dismissal of the disappearances as being labeled as runaways? And I do think that too. And I do think the fact that I honestly think that the fact that people were not finding bodies yeah, he had buried them well enough and gotten rid of the bodies well enough and not kept them at his home, like Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wing, john Wayne Gacy, Ed Gain. All those people who kept bodies in their homes, it's not as noticeable. I mean, sure, he moved a lot, but people just probably thought, oh, he moved a lot. Amanda: Right. That wasn't really suspicious back then. Kori: No, I think that had he not been killed and had he lived a little bit longer at the residence he was at in his final times, his father's house, I think that he would have eventually been found out that way. Being killed was just his downfall in more ways than one. But I think him being killed really I think he would have gone on to kill more boys, and I think he would have probably ended up burying them closer to where he was. But when you live in an apartment, you can't really bury bodies anywhere. Amanda: True. Kori: That's why he buried him in a boathouse and the lake and the beach and things like that. Nobody went to his boat house. Amanda: Right. Kori: So you're not going to find bodies there. And he was smart enough I mean, he was a smart guy. He was smart enough to know to bury him with lime. And those guys would have never found any of those bodies had it not been for Elmer Wayne Henley and David Brooks leading them to them. Amanda: I totally agree. And I also think that the FBI, like their profiling unit, was still in its infancy then, so that became a thing in 1971. And so it was so new and there were so few people working on it that now it's its own department. Kori: And the fact that the law enforcement classified almost every single one of those boys missing, runaways so the FBI was never involved. Amanda: Right. Kori: Until they found the bones. Amanda: Right. And profiling, I mean, like I said, it was in its infancy, so it wasn't a thing. So they didn't know what they were looking for. They had no idea that they wouldn't have even had I really think they wouldn't have even had the forethought to say, oh, God, this could be a serial killer. This could be something bigger. I think they were still living in puppies and sunshine. Boys just ran away. Kori: Yeah. I mean, California had seen more serial murders than probably Texas had forever. So I honestly think there wasn't the tools. There wasn't the resources. There was a lack of media. There was a lack of law enforcement being involved with anything. And they were quick to move missing boys and missing girls into runaways or prostitution. Amanda: Oh, God. Kori: Yeah, the 70s were a strange time. Amanda: They were. It was a pivotal time in law enforcement. Kori: It was. All right, these are some good questions. They were very thought provoking, and I like the little discussion at the end. I think that's really nice. So if you want to keep hearing that, please get us your questions. Facebook Instagram. You can DM us. You can slide into our DMs. Amanda: Send us a carrier pigeon. Kori: Pigeon. If you know where we live, you can mail us a letter. If you're the one of the ten people that may have our text message number, you can text message us and get your jokes in. We like to hear your jokes, too, so make sure you get those into us. We appreciate that. Amanda: All right, crime fans, until next time, thank you so much for joining us today. Again, make sure you send us your questions. If you haven't already, please subscribe so you can be notified every time we upload. If you enjoy listening to us every week, please leave us a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. We love doing listener shoutouts, so make sure that you leave a comment or a review for us. New episodes are released every Friday at 10:30 a.m. Mountain Standard Time. Please follow us on Instagram at Colorado Crime Pod or on Facebook at Colorado Crime Podcast for information on next week's episode, as well as other true crime happenings, we hope that you have a beautiful day wherever you are. Kori: And as always, stay safe until next time podcast ends. Have the weekend you deserve.