Episode 30- The Long Island Serial Killer

Amanda: Hey there, all you true crime fans. I'm Amanda. Kori: And I am Kori. Amanda: And welcome back to Colorado Crime. You know the drill. We're just two best friends who want to chat about all things true crime. Let's get into this week's joke to lighten things up a bit before we talk about murders. Just a disclaimer, guys, we know that we're not for everyone, so if this isn't the podcast for you, there's many others that you can check out. Thanks for stopping by. We loved having you. But don't leave mean comments, right? Kori: We're just doing our best here. Doing our best. Amanda: Yeah. So a little bit of sunshine. Let's have a joke. Kori: Okay. You ready? Amanda: I am. Kori: How do moths swim? Amanda: How? Kori: They use the butterfly stroke. Amanda: Oh, my God. That's terrible. Kori: I know. Amanda: It doesn't even make sense, right? Moths can't get wet, right? Don't their wings fall? Kori: I don't know. I don't know anything about moths. I just read the like, don't try to analyze joke. It's just a joke. Amanda: Joke. Amanda, gosh. Funny. Well, before we get started, we wanted to take just a quick second to let you guys know that we're now accepting donations on our casto site. So please don't feel obligated to donate. But you would like to. We would absolutely love your support. We will have a link for the site in the show notes if you'd like to check it out. And thank you if you do. Kori: Yeah, thanks. I want to throw a little side note in. We are no longer doing serial killer Tuesday. We've just morphed serial killer Tuesday into regular podcast Friday. Today we're going to talk about the ever evolving Gilgo Beach serial killings, otherwise known as the Long Island Serial Killings. There's a lot of hype going on around that right now because they just arrested someone. Anyway, these killings happened between 1996 and 2011, which, when you think about it and do the math, that really wasn't all that long ago. It all started when a female named Shannon Gilbert was reported missing and a search ensued. That was when the remains of eleven people were found along the Ocean Parkway near the remote beach towns of Gilgo and Oak Beach in Suffolk County. Most of the identified victims were sex workers who had been advertising their services on Craigslist. Shannon Gilbert was a 24 year old woman who had disappeared in May of 2010 after fleeing for her life from a client's home. She had made a 23 minutes long phone call to 911 stating, quote, they are trying to kill me. End quote. About a month after she had disappeared, the Suffolk county police department's missing persons division asked officer John Malia to search for Shannon with his trained cadaver dog. Here's a little side note. Cadaver dogs are specially trained to pick up the scent of human remains. Their work is similar to search and rescue dogs, but cadaver dogs specialize in detecting decomposing flesh. A trained cadaver dog is 95% effective at picking up scents of human decomposition, including bodies that are buried up to 15ft deep. Cadaver dogs are often used in conjunction with search and rescue dogs, as victims are often found both dead or alive. Amanda: I love dogs. Kori: Yeah, me too. Amanda: I think that's really cool that they can 15ft deep. That's really deep. Kori: That is really deep. And 95% effective. That's also pretty good. That is okay, so back to the story. Over the summer of 2010, officer Malia unsuccessfully searched the gated community where Shannon had been seen last. Officer Malia made another attempt to search on December 11, 2010. He stayed close to the shoulder of the parkway. Officer Malia had based his search choice using the FBI. Data that dumped bodies are frequently found close to roadways. There's a little note for you. There was thick vegetation and a light covering of snow. Despite these conditions, Malia's dog hid on ascent and discovered a disintegrating burlap sack with skeletal remains. If you are thinking, oh, thank God they found Shannon, you would be incorrect. The remains found belonged to Melissa Bartholomee. While they were searching that area, they discovered the remains of three more bodies. These remains belonged to Maureen Brangard, megan Waterman and Amber Costella. All four sets of remains were found, approximately 500ft from each other. This set of four remains was designated as the Gilgo Four. This was just the start of the Suffolk County nightmare. Amanda: All right, guys, before we discuss the victims in the case, let's have a quick word about Surfshark VPN. Surfshark is a VPN, and when it comes to our research, we oftentimes are searching for things that aren't exactly sunshine and puppies. With Surfshark, we can feel safe knowing that we are protected no matter where the web takes us. With Surfshark, you can surf the web without tracking with a VPN, shield your devices with antivirus, and guard your identity with an all in one app. A single Surfshark subscription works simultaneously on multiple devices and protects your entire household. They don't monitor, track, or store what you do online. No activity logs. Whatever you do stays with you. Their customer support experts are there for you 24/7. We love Surfshark and know that you will, too. But on the off chance that you don't, they do offer a 30 day, risk free, money back guarantee. We're sure you're going to love Surfshark just as much as we do. We have a link in our bio for you to check out. Thank you so much to Surfshark. Now, let's talk a little about the Gilgo Four. Kori: Okay, well, the first body that was found well, not the first one, but the first one we're going to talk about is Maureen Bernard Barnes. She was just a young 25 year old mother of two when she went missing on July 9, 2007. Maureen was very petite. Like many of the other victims, she was only about 411 and weighed just 105 pounds. She had said that she had planned to spend the day in New York City. Maureen worked as a paid escort through Craigslist to pay the mortgage on her house. She had been out of the sex industry for about seven months, but had recently returned in order to pay her bills after she had received an eviction notice. Shortly after she disappeared, Maureen's friend Sarah received a strange phone call from an unidentified man on an unfamiliar number. The man claimed that he had just seen Maureen and that she was alive and working at a quote whorehouse in Queens. End quote. He refused to tell Sarah who he was and did not give the location of where he was supposed to have seen Maureen. He informed Sarah that he would call her back and give her the address, but she never heard from him again. Sarah stated that the man had no discernible New York or Boston accent. When Maureen disappeared, she had been working at the Super Eight Motel in Manhattan. She had called her friend and told her that she was meeting a client outside of the motel. Her body was found December 2010, and there were indications that she had been strangled. Amanda: The next victim was Melissa Bartholomew. She was the first of the four found. Melissa went missing July twelveTH of 2009. She was just 24 years old. Like Maureen, melissa was also petite. She was 411 and weighed only 95 pounds. Melissa had been living in the Bronx and was also working as an escort through Craigslist when she disappeared. She had just finished meeting with a client, deposited the $900 into her bank account, and had attempted to call an old boyfriend. But that call was unsuccessful. About a week later, Melissa'sister Amanda began receiving vulgar, mocking and insulting phone calls that lasted for about five weeks. These were coming from a man who was using Melissa's cell phone. He may have been Melissa's killer. The man kept asking Amanda if she was a quote ***** like her sister. End quote. The phone calls became increasingly disturbing, and eventually they culminated into the man telling Amanda that her sister Melissa was dead and that he was, quote, going to watch her rot. End quote. Police did trace some of the calls to Madison Square Gardens, midtown Manhattan and Masapequa, but were unable to determine who was making them. You have to remember that this was 2009 and cell phones were still newer, and it was harder to pinpoint exact locations. Melissa's mother said that there were a lot of calls to Manerville from her daughter's phone at the time she went missing. Melissa was found in a burlap sack December of 2010. She had also been strangled. Kori: Megan Waterman was the youngest of the Gilgal four. At just 22 years old. She was also the tallest at 55. Meghan was the mother of one child. Megan was originally from South Portland, Maine. She went missing June 6 to 2010 after she placed some advertisements on Craigslist for escort services. June 5, 2010, she had called her 20 year old boyfriend to tell him that she was going out and that she would call him later. At the time Megan went missing, she had also been staying in a motel in Haupag, New York, about 15 miles northeast of Gilgo Beach. She was also found in December 2010 and had been strangled as well. Amanda: And the last of the Gilgo four was Amber Costello. She was just 27 when she went missing. Like Melissa and Maureen, Amber was small. She was 411 and weighed just 100 pounds. She was living in West Babylon, New York. West Babylon was about 10 miles north of Gilgal Beach. Amber was a sex worker and heroin user. She went missing on September 10, 2010. When Amber went missing, she reportedly was going to meet a stranger who had called her multiple times and offered her one $500 for her services. Amber's family had believed that she was actually in a residential drug rehab, which is why she was not reported missing right away after she stopped responding to phone calls and text messages. Before Amber moved to New York, she had been living in Clearwater, Florida, with her second husband. Amber had sadly been sexually assaulted as a child by a neighbor and became addicted to drugs in her teenage years. She was also found in December of 2010, and she had been strangled as well. Kori: Just a little side note amber's drug use has nothing to do with why she went missing. The person that was abducting them is a terrible person, and no one deserves to have this happen to them, whether they're a drug user or a sex worker. It's not okay. Amanda: Absolutely. Kori: So after finding these four women's bodies, the search was still continuing for Shannon. Instead of finding Shannon's body, they found the remains of four more women. These remains were found between March 29 through April 4 of 2011. All four sets of remains were found in another area of the parkway near Oak Beach and Gilgo Beach. This was within 2 miles and to the east of the four that were founded in December of 2010. The newly discovered bodies were those of Jessica Taylor, valerie Mack, also known as Melissa Taylor, an unidentified woman they called Jane Doe Number Three, or Peaches, and an unidentified toddler that was the daughter of Peaches. At the discovery of these remains, the Suffolk County Police expanded the search area up to Nassau County, up to the Nassau County border to look for more bodies. Once the police expanded the search, they discovered the remains of two more people on April 11, 2011. These remains were found about 1 mile apart and approximately 5 miles west of the remains found in December. The first set of remains belonged to a victim now thought to be a transgender woman. They were designated as Asian Male, and they are thought to have been dead between five to ten years. The next set belonged to a female named Jane DOE's number seven. Part of her remains had also been found on Fire Island in 1996, so the police identified the below victims valerie Mack, aka. Melissa Taylor, aka. The manorville jane Doe and Jane Doe number six. I'll get into why she had so many names. Valerie Mack was also known as Melissa Taylor. She was a 24 year old resident of Philadelphia when she disappeared in 2000. She was last seen by some family members in the spring or summer in the area of Port Republic, New Jersey. She was also working as an escort. She was also very small, similar to the other victims. At just 5ft tall and 100 pounds, valerie's partial remains were found in Manorville November 1, 2000. But they didn't know who she was until 2020. Her torso was found wrapped in garbage bags and dumped in the woods near the intersection of Halsey Manor Road and Mill Road. And then the police later discovered a head, right foot, and hands on April 4, 2011. But at the time, they didn't know who they belonged to, so they dubbed those remains Jane Doe Number Six. Later on, it was determined that those parts belonged to the torso that was found in 2000. They noticed that her right foot had been cut off above the ankle to possibly conceal a tattoo or identify a mark. On May 20, eigth, 2020, the police announced that all those remains that had been found were determined to be those of Valerie Mac. So her body was found in different places, but DNA wasn't that great, so they didn't really have anything to compare it to. But finally, they were able to, I guess, declare all of her parts hers, which is why she had so many akas, which is really sad. Amanda: Yeah, that's really sad. Kori: Yeah. They didn't know who she was until 2020. Amanda: While the second victim of our second set of four was Jessica Taylor. Jessica was just 20 years old living in Manhattan when she disappeared on July 21, 2003. She was also working as a sex worker and had been working in Washington, DC. And the Manhattan area. She was last seen around the Port Authority bus terminal on July 26, 2003. A naked and dismembered torso missing the head and hands had been found 45 miles east of Gilgo Beach. The torso was discovered on a pile of scrap wood at the east end of Halsey Manor Road. There was plastic sheeting underneath the body, and a tattoo had been mutilated with something sharp. Through DNA analysis later that year, the body was determined to be that of Jessica Taylor. Then, on March 29, 2011, the police discovered a skull, a pair of hands and a forearm. Those were also determined to be Jessica's as well. Kori: Karen Vergada aka the Fire Island jane Doe aka. Jane Doe number seven. Karen Vergata was a 34 year old woman from manhattan. She was also believed to be working as a sex worker when she disappeared in 1996. Karen's severed legs were found in garbage bags on Fire Island on April 20, 1996. Almost 15 years later, on April 11, 2011, her skull and several teeth were found on Tobe Beach. Her remains were identified publicly in August of 2023 through DNA. There's not known a whole lot known about her. It's sad because all these women were sex workers. Honestly, to be fair, nobody really looked. Amanda: For them, which is so sad to me. Kori: They've been missing for a long time. Amanda: A person is a person. Doesn't matter what their job is or what they choose to do. extracurricularly, whether it's drugs or alcohol or whatever, they're still a person. Somebody loves them. Kori: Yeah. The police also discovered three more sets of remains. At this time, those remains have not been identified, and no one's come forward to claim them. The first one was Peaches, aka. Jane Doe number three. Jane Doe Number Three was a young African American woman whose remains were found on June 28, 1997. Her torso was found in a green rubber made container dumped along the west side of Hamstead Lake. The investigators reported that the victim's torso had a tattoo on her left breast that was a peach with a bite taken out of it and two drips falling from the core. On April 11, 2011, when the investigators were searching Nassau County, they discovered dismembered skeletal remains in a plastic bag. These remains and the torso that had been found have been linked together through DNA testing and have been discovered to be all belonging to Jane Doe Number Three. You'd think with that distinct of a tattoo, someone would know who she is. But no one's come forward to and her DNA is not in the system, so they don't know who she is. Amanda: That's so sad. Kori: Yeah. Baby Dough has been the only child remains found. She was determined to be between one and four years old. Her remains were found on April 11, 2011, about 200ft away from the remains of Valerie Mack. Through DNA analysis, the child's remains were found to be related to Peaches. The baby's body had been wrapped in a blanket and showed no visible signs of trauma. Which is so disturbing, like what happened to that poor child? And how come nobody noticed there was a child missing? Amanda: That's awful. Kori: Again, nobody's come forward to claim either one of those two. Amanda: The next body discovered was the body of a young Asian male, and that was discovered on April 4, 2011, at Gilgo Beach. It looks like they had died from blunt force trauma. They were found very close to where the Gilgo Four had been found. The victim was found wearing women's clothing. They had been described as being young, between 17 and 23, five foot six and transgender, and missing four teeth. They may have had a musculoskeletal disorder that could have affected their gait. The victim had been thought to have been dead for five to ten years. In September of 2011, police released a. Kori: Sketch of the victim, which again, no one has come forward. On December 13, 2011, Shannon Gilbert, the woman who had gone missing that had prompted the original search, was found in a marsh about a half a mile from where she originally disappeared. About a week earlier, they had found some of her clothing and other belongings in that same area. Police have stated that Shannon's death is not related to the Long Island serial killer case. Her now deceased mother has advocated that her daughter was murdered by a serial killer. There is talk that maybe there's two serial killers. Which two serial killers burying people in the same location is not really something that happens. Yeah, it could be a copycat. Amanda: But all the bodies were found around the same time. Kori: Right. And in the same place. Amanda: Yeah. Kori: The other thing is that a lot of them were found with the same sort of had been killed the same way. Like torsos were cut up, body parts were missing, people had been strangled. Like the Gilgo Four, I get because their bodies weren't really as dismembered. I guess everybody was dismembered, but they. Amanda: Were all found in the same place versus different islands. Kori: Yes. And all their parts weren't cut off and it was kind of crazy. So there has been talk that there is more than one serial killer, which I mean, is not far fetched, but it's hard to know. It's hard to know. So there's also quite a long list of possible victims, not just those ten that we talked about before. So the first one is Tina Foglia. She was 19. She went missing February 1, 1982. Her dismembered body was found in three trash bags. She had been found by Dot workers on February 3 on the side of the road in Suffolk County. A ring that she had been known to wear was missing and there was unidentified male DNA on the trash bags. Police have not ruled her death as an early victim of the Long Island serial killer, but have stated that the connection is not an active avenue of investigation, which is kind of surprising. Seems how her body was dismembered as well. That seems to be the theme for him. I would have to classify this one and the next one, the next couple as being from the same killer. Maybe not the one that was arrested for the four, but definitely same killer of the other. Yeah. So the next one is Jacqueline Smith. She was only 16. She was last seen in Brooklyn, New York. She was reported missing August twelveTH, 1999. She had left her house to go hang out with some friends. She never came back. A torso was found near Beach Street in Queens, New York on June 20, 2000, and it was later identified as Jacqueline's. Her other body parts have never been found. So the whole dismembering thing is just like a big clue. That is a serial killer's. That's his calling card, basically. Amanda: Right? Kori: Awful, right? Andre Isaac andre was a professional drag queen. He was just 25 years old at the time of his disappearance. In November 2002, he was last seen getting into the car of a, quote, secret friend, end quote. His torso was later found on Beach Street on December 17, 2002, the same place that Jacqueline's was found. His head was later discovered with a bullet wound to the temple. January 25, 2003. His arms and legs were found several miles away in plastic bags. See, it's just too like they can't they have a signature. Amanda: They definitely fall under the same Mo. Kori: Yes. Jamie Seymour. Not to be confused with Jane Seymour, jamie was 21 years old when she was last heard from on July 22, 2005. She had called her father to let him know that she needed a ride home from the Port Authority. She then had called her mother from someone else's phone and was not seen or heard from again. She, however, was not reported missing by her parents until August 8, 2005, roughly two weeks after they had heard from her. Her body has also never been found, and her parents believe that she met with foul play. I'm not sure I would move her into that category. Seems how there's not been a body found from her. Amanda: Still so sad, though. Kori: Yeah. Tanya Rush. Tanya was 39 when she went missing on June 23, 2008. She was last seen walking towards a subway station in Brooklyn, New York. Her dismembered body was found by a state road cleaning crew inside a black suitcase on June 27, 2008. At the time of her death, she was a mother of three who had taken up sex work to support her drug addiction, which is also sad. Amanda: That's so sad. Those four kids are growing up now without a mom. Kori: Shannon Gilbert, who was the start of why all these women were found. Basically, she was a 24 year old escort who could have been a victim of the Long Island and serial Killer. She was I mean, the reason the other bodies were found. She left for a client's residence in Oak Beach after midnight on May 1, 2010. At 451 in the morning, 911 dispatchers received a panicked call from Gilbert, who could be heard saying that there was someone after her and that they were trying to kill her. She was last seen a short time later, banging on the front door of a nearby Oak Beach residence and screaming for help before running off into the night. After 19 months of searching, police found Gilbert's remains in a marsh half a mile away from where she was last seen. In May 2012, the Suffolk County Medical examiner ruled that Gilbert accidentally drowned after entering the marsh. They believe that she was in a drug induced panic and have concluded that hers was death by misadventure or inconclusive. Her family believes that she was murdered. On November 15, 2012, a lawsuit was filed by her mother, Mary Gilbert, against the Suffolk County Police Department in the hopes of getting more answers about what happened to her daughter the night she went missing. Due to the controversy about Gilbert's death in September of 2014, forensic pathologist Michael Baden agreed to conduct an independent autopsy of Gilbert's remains in hopes of determining a clear cause of death. Upon examination of Gilbert's remains, baden found damage to her hyoid bone, suggesting that strangulation may have occurred. Baden also noticed that her body was found face up, which is not common for drowning victims. I would say that the original medical examiner was kind of not very good. Despite this, her death is still officially listed as an accident because he was just forensic bone. Amanda: That's not a bone that necessarily breaks easily. Kori: No. There has to be some strangling happening. Amanda: Yeah. There has to be some serious force. So it's not like she accidentally went into the marbled herself, strangled herself. Kori: Right. July 23, 2016, mary Gilbert was murdered in her home in Ellenville in Ellenville, New York. Later that day, her younger daughter, Sarah Elizabeth Gilbert, was arrested and charged with the stabbing death of her mother. On May 6, 2020, the New York State Supreme Court ordered the Suffolk County Police to release Gilbert's 911 call, recording denying their request to withhold it after more than ten years. On May 13, 2022, the Suffolk County Police Department released the 911 call. I feel bad for Shannon's poor mother. Amanda: Yeah. Kori: She's just trying to find her daughter, and then her other daughter murders her. Amanda: Was there a reason? Was she mentally unstable? Was she on drugs? Kori: Didn't say. There's not a whole lot about that. I didn't go searching for it because she's part of the story, but she's not. Amanda: Right. Kori: You know what I mean? That's a whole different story. And then the last one is Natasha Hugo. Natasha was 31 when she disappeared from her Queen's Village home in New York on March 16, 2013. On March 14, 2013, her wallet, keys, and some clothing were found along Ocean Parkway near Gilgo Beach. Her car was found abandoned near the beach with some footprints hidden towards the water. Her body was later discovered floating in the water by some beachgoers at 09:30 P.m. On June 24, 2013. Her body had no obvious signs of trauma. I don't know if I would classify her in this whole string of possibly being murdered by a serial killer. Amanda: I have to agree not to be mean about it. Kori: The lack of trauma, the fact that her car was found near the beach with footprints heading towards the water, she could have just like her wallet, her keys, her clothes were all found along the beach. She could have just decided to end it all. Amanda: Yeah, right. And maybe in hopes of somebody being able to identify her for her family or something. She left everything behind. Kori: Right. So these murders went cold for quite some time, until July 14 of 2023, when police arrested 59 year old Rex Howerman, who was working as an architect in his own firm in downtown Manhattan. He was arrested and charged with the murder of the three women that were found on Gilgo Beach first. He's also a prime suspect in the fourth murder as her body was found close to the other three. The judge has now ordered Rex to provide a DNA sample. Rex has currently pled not guilty to these three murders, so they've linked him to several burner phones that he used to contact these victims because he's so Rex is a Long Island native, married not anymore, and the father of two children. His wife is currently divorcing him. So there's that. Yeah. People that he has worked with have described him as arrogant and creepy. One of the women that he worked with, he didn't even really work with her. He just met her at a board meeting and then obsessively called her for, like, three weeks and left her horrible messages. So he was first linked to the case in March of 2022, when investigators discovered that a Chevy Avalanche that was possibly spotted by a witness when Amber Costello went missing had belonged to him. So that's kind of interesting. They have served more than 300 subpoenas and search warrants and uncovered records for multiple burner phones that were used to contact all of the Gilgo four. They've also linked him to the taunting phone calls that were made to family members of some of the missing women. These were actually made from the Midtown Manhattan area where Rex's office was located. There was also a hair located on the burlap sack used to wrap up Miss Waterman. But at the time, DNA testing was not as advanced, so they didn't really know who it was. They just had the DNA sample. The surveillance team that had been surveilling Rex collected his DNA from a discarded pizza box, and it was a confirmed match to the hair that was found on the burlap sack. Amanda: Okay, that's some of my favorite ever. Kori: Because people are stupid. Your trash on the curb is public. Amanda: Yes. It's abandoned property. Kori: Yes. There's no search warrant that has to be served on it. You throw it in the trash can and put it out on your curb. It's abandoned property. It's trash. Nobody cares. So if you don't want to get caught up in a murder, don't throw your **** in your own trash. Amanda: Don't murder people. Let's start there. Kori: If you have to, just follow the rules of murdering. Amanda: Of murdering. Kori: Well, it's important to note that the judge, on August, when his first court hearing was in August, had ordered Rex to provide a DNA sample. This is so that they can compare the sample from. Him to the pizza box that they recovered from his trash. And this is really also his attorneys cannot come back and say that the pizza box DNA belonged to somebody else. So if his DNA matches the DNA on the pizza box that matches the DNA on the burlap sack, there's no way saying that he wasn't involved of any of that. Amanda: Oh, I hope that he gets caught. Kori: Yes. Amanda: I hope he's not the guy who gets off on a technicality. Kori: Right. Amanda: Because unfortunately our justice system is flawed and there's a really solid chance that he could. Kori: Which is why I think they wanted the DNA, like a legit DNA sample from him to compare to all of those things, which is smart. So he's also accused of searching on his computer, which is another dumb thing. Why could law enforcement not trace the calls made by the Long Island Serial Killer? Why hasn't the Long Island serial killer been caught? And new phone technology may be a key to break in the case. And he also was searching sadistic torture related ****, child **** and other disturbing. Amanda: Content lock him away for the child **** alone. Kori: Right. So more forensic analysis revealed that there were female hairs found in three crime scene locations and those were found to have belonged to Mr. Howerman's wife. However, the authorities have determined through cell phone records that Mr. Howerman's wife was out of the state when the murders took place. So that's just transfer DNA. Which is why I can never murder anybody because I have so much ******* dog hair and my own hair falling out. It would be bad. This is bad. Amanda: I'm just saying, if he had surfshark and was actually using a VPN, history. Kori: Would have been smart. Amanda: Just saying. Kori: Yeah. Shout out all you serial killers out there. Start using surf shark. I mean no, but use our link. At the time that Barfolomew went missing in July 2009, mr. Howerman's wife was in Iceland, so she couldn't have murdered her. She was in Maryland around the time Waterman disappeared and she was in New Jersey when Costella had last been seen in September. Amanda: That's crazy. Kori: Yeah. Amanda: Do you think that he was trying to plant his wife's DNA, though? Kori: I don't think he was trying to plant it. I think it was just on his clothes and he's a dummy. Amanda: Okay, that makes sense. Kori: Yeah. Amanda: I don't know why I was assuming her hair. I was assuming pubic hair for some reason. Kori: No, her head hair. Yeah. Amanda: Yes. I'm following again. Kori: It's also likely that the burlap sack, the tape, and the vehicles and other instrumentals utilized in the furtherance of these murders came from defendant Howerman's residence where his wife also resides or was transferred from his clothing. So that's why his wife's stuff was on there and like poor thing. Yeah. Can you imagine? Amanda: No. Kori: So he has court again in September. I don't know the exact date. They're kind of keeping that a little bit. I've been searching. Yeah, I can find it. That's in September. It doesn't give me an exact date, but the sure is interesting. It's been a long time coming for Mr. Howraman, and I hope he gets charged with I hope he gets convicted of at least the three murders, and that gives those three families something to hold on to. I'm not sure what they'll do with the fourth one at this time. They haven't really decided if that's something that he's done. I'm sure that killing probably does belong to him since they were found in the same area, buried within feet of each other. Amanda: Right. Kori: But we'll be sure to keep you updated on any happenings with this case since it's ongoing. But I wanted to talk about it because it is a big case. It's been a long time coming case, for sure. Amanda: And I've heard about it. I've heard bits and pieces. Obviously, it's been in the news lately because of the arrest. Right. But that's kind of why Corey took the lead on this one, because I didn't know anything about it, and I don't know how I missed anything, but. Kori: What a sad, you know, my weird fascination with serial killers. So whatever. Amanda: That's fair. Yeah, I've heard, like, bits and pieces. I do remember Shannon. I remember when that happened, and I remember the call and all of that. But just an interesting such a sad case. And it'll be interesting. Kori: Well, I knew about it because they found so many bodies in one place, but I think there was a criminal minds or something that did you know how they play off similar cases? Amanda: Got you. Kori: Yes, I think there was one where they found a bunch of bodies on a beach or something like that. Which is why yeah, I think it's crazy that first of all, it's crazy that those bodies have been there since however long in 2011. People are like, there's a bunch of bodies over here. Amanda: What, you didn't notice that before? Kori: Yeah, or the fact that they found Shannon Gilbert only a half a mile from where she disappeared. Why didn't anyone look over there? I don't understand that part. And that's why it's frustrating. Amanda: I think a lot of it is because of drug use and sex work that these people go under the radar. Kori: Because they're sex workers and drug addicts. Amanda: Yes. Unfortunately, they are stigmatized. Kori: Which sucks. Amanda: It does suck. It's heartbreaking. There's still people there's still somebody's loved ones, their mothers and sisters and aunts and siblings. It's a sad case. Kori: It's also kind of sad that some of them hadn't even been reported missing for quite some time because of that reason. Because their families were like, well, they use drugs or they do sex work. Like, they disappear for weeks at a time. It's nothing unusual. Amanda: Right. Poor Peaches, still, not having been identified by her family. And not only Peaches, but her poor child. That's just awful. Yes, they were just a little innocent baby, essentially. Kori: Right? Amanda: All right, Crime fans, until next time. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you haven't already, please subscribe so you can be notified every time we upload. If you enjoy listening to us every week, please leave us a review on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcasts. New episodes are released every Friday at 10:30, a.m. Mountain Standard Time. Please give us a follow on Instagram at coloradocrimepod or on Facebook at colorado Crimepodcast. For information on next week's episode, as well as other true crime happenings, we hope you have a beautiful day wherever you are, and as always, stay safe. Kori: Until next time podcastians have the weekend you deserve.